The Official 2020 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Second Base]

I really wouldn't get too excited over some cage swings by Marsh. The kid has always had impressive raw power, or at least since he was 17 anyway. The difference for him has always been game power. A big part of Brandon's game has always been strike zone discernment and pitch recognition, which all comes under the umbrella term, plate discipline. That space had been conducive toward driving the ball back up there middle but it very rarely includes being aggressive and unloading on a pitch. 

Matt Thaiss went through a similar journey after he was drafted, but he's definitely turned a corner in that department. And I think that's what we'll see from Marsh. This year he'll show an increased ability to turn in a pitch and focus more on driving the ball. This approach, along with the ball AAA is using, the hitting environment in Salt Lake, and the advanced pitching he'll see will lead to more strikeouts, and more HR's.

If Marsh stays in AAA the whole year, I think he'd hit 30+ HR's, which is a pretty aggressive prediction. But I don't think that'll happen. I think Marsh is up in July and doesn't go back down.

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

I really wouldn't get too excited over some cage swings by Marsh. The kid has always had impressive raw power, or at least since he was 17 anyway. The difference for him has always been game power. A big part of Brandon's game has always been strike zone discernment and pitch recognition, which all comes under the umbrella term, plate discipline. That space had been conducive toward driving the ball back up there middle but it very rarely includes being aggressive and unloading on a pitch. 

Matt Thaiss went through a similar journey after he was drafted, but he's definitely turned a corner in that department. And I think that's what we'll see from Marsh. This year he'll show an increased ability to turn in a pitch and focus more on driving the ball. This approach, along with the ball AAA is using, the hitting environment in Salt Lake, and the advanced pitching he'll see will lead to more strikeouts, and more HR's.

If Marsh stays in AAA the whole year, I think he'd hit 30+ HR's, which is a pretty aggressive prediction. But I don't think that'll happen. I think Marsh is up in July and doesn't go back down.

I always felt like Marsh's power showed up when the ball was well out in front.  If he starts elevating when the ball gets deeper, that's when the in game power will really take off.  

[Blarg]

No. He is an elite defensive outfielder and there is no value in putting him on 1st base. 

[Stradling]

4 hours ago, Blarg said:

No. He is an elite defensive outfielder and there is no value in putting him on 1st base. 

If he can out hit Albert or Thaiss then yes there’s value there. Not to mention the value of versatility.  What if he and Adams and Adell all pan out?  I realize one probably gets traded but if not then you’ll have four starting outfielders. 

[Second Base]

2020: April-May: Upton in LF, Trout in CF, Goodwin in RF, Hermosillo is 4th OF.

May-July: Upton in LF, Trout in CF and Adell in RF. Goodwin is 4th OF.

August-September: Adell in LF, Trout in CF, Marsh in RF, Hermosillo is 4th OF.

Upton has knee surgery in August that will keep him out through April. He will return in May.

Adams spend the entire season at Inland Empire, and his power and speed develop to a greater degree than originally anticipated. He's a Top 50 prospect.

2021: Marsh picks up a 1B glove, gets some time there in ST, but Thaiss gets most of the starts there. Pujols shifts to part time DH, part time 1B role. 

April-May: Adell in LF, Trout in CF, Marsh in RF.

May-September: Upton in LF, Trout in CF, Adell in RF. Marsh is the 4th OF, getting one start a week in RF (Adell in LF for Upton), and another 3-4 starts a week at 1B. 

Albert Pujols retires after the season.

Jordyn Adams spends the entire year in AA as expected.

2022: April-May - Upton in LF, Trout in CF, Adell in RF, Marsh at 1B 4 days a week, in RF two days a week. Adell slides to LF on those days. Upton DH's two days a week. Thaiss plays 1B two days a week.

June-September: Adell in LF, Trout in CF, Marsh in RF, Thaiss at 1B, Upton DH's twice a week. 

Angels run away with the division, Adams is promoted in August and gets some valuable developmental time for two months, giving Trout the opportunity to rest his legs down the stretch and DH a couple times a week.

Upton retires after the season.

2023: Trout plays LF 4 days a week, DH's twice a week. Adams plays CF 4 days a week, is the 4th OF other two days. Adell plays RF. Marsh plays 1B 4 days a week, CF 2 days a week. Rendon plays 3B 4 days a week, 1B two days a week. 

 

[ettin]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

If he can out hit Albert or Thaiss then yes there’s value there. Not to mention the value of versatility.  What if he and Adams and Adell all pan out?  I realize one probably gets traded but if not then you’ll have four starting outfielders. 

The point is that he is a better defender than even Trout probably and that you would be better off taking Justin Upton and putting him at 1B and let Marsh roam the outfield where he belongs. It makes no sense.

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, ettin said:

The point is that he is a better defender than even Trout probably and that you would be better off taking Justin Upton and putting him at 1B and let Marsh roam the outfield where he belongs. It makes no sense.

what makes no sense is the notion that Upton can play 1b.  His terrible hands are what make him a poor defender in LF. The upgrade in OF defense by putting Marsh over Upton is completely offset or even worse by putting Upton in a spot where he touches the ball a lot more.  

Upton has never fielded an IF ground ball his entire career.  

If Upton is healthy and hitting well, Marsh isn't replacing him any time soon yet if Marsh's bat is ready and there is an opportunity to improve the offense by getting him in the lineup ie like if our 1b production is struggling because La Stella isn't doing well, Thaiss doesn't turn a corner or Albert is being Albert, then it makes a ton of sense to see if the super athletic Marsh has an aptitude for 1b.  And to find that out in the minors where it doesn't impact wins and losses at the major league level.  

It costs you nothing to add some positional versatility to Marsh's game.  I don't think anyone is suggesting this as a long term solution, just an opportunity to create additional depth at another position.  

I think people massively underrate 1b defense and the impact a premier defender can have at that position.  

[ettin]

16 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

what makes no sense is the notion that Upton can play 1b.  His terrible hands are what make him a poor defender in LF. The upgrade in OF defense by putting Marsh over Upton is completely offset or even worse by putting Upton in a spot where he touches the ball a lot more.  

Upton has never fielded an IF ground ball his entire career.  

If Upton is healthy and hitting well, Marsh isn't replacing him any time soon yet if Marsh's bat is ready and there is an opportunity to improve the offense by getting him in the lineup ie like if our 1b production is struggling because La Stella isn't doing well, Thaiss doesn't turn a corner or Albert is being Albert, then it makes a ton of sense to see if the super athletic Marsh has an aptitude for 1b.  And to find that out in the minors where it doesn't impact wins and losses at the major league level.  

It costs you nothing to add some positional versatility to Marsh's game.  I don't think anyone is suggesting this as a long term solution, just an opportunity to create additional depth at another position.  

I think people massively underrate 1b defense and the impact a premier defender can have at that position.  

Sure you can take any good defender and put them at 1B and they will probably have some success but the trade-off the other way is much higher in my opinion. Upton isn't as complete a disaster as we like to make out here.

[ettin]

50 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

what makes no sense is the notion that Upton can play 1b.  His terrible hands are what make him a poor defender in LF. The upgrade in OF defense by putting Marsh over Upton is completely offset or even worse by putting Upton in a spot where he touches the ball a lot more.  

Upton has never fielded an IF ground ball his entire career.  

If Upton is healthy and hitting well, Marsh isn't replacing him any time soon yet if Marsh's bat is ready and there is an opportunity to improve the offense by getting him in the lineup ie like if our 1b production is struggling because La Stella isn't doing well, Thaiss doesn't turn a corner or Albert is being Albert, then it makes a ton of sense to see if the super athletic Marsh has an aptitude for 1b.  And to find that out in the minors where it doesn't impact wins and losses at the major league level.  

It costs you nothing to add some positional versatility to Marsh's game.  I don't think anyone is suggesting this as a long term solution, just an opportunity to create additional depth at another position.  

I think people massively underrate 1b defense and the impact a premier defender can have at that position.  

Put it a different way: You can take ANY other Angels outfielder and put him at 1B and put Marsh in their place and the team will be improved defensively and offensively in my opinion. I don't care pick Upton, Trout, or Adell and put them at 1B and Marsh in the outfield and you are likely to be improved. The point is that Marsh at 1B is NOT the optimum solution.

[ettin]

43 minutes ago, RBM said:

My point was, I think Upton would be an absolute nightmare at 1B, a huge liability, and I don't think the Angels would even attempt it.

But I do think they would like to have both Upton and Marsh in the lineup in 2021 over Pujols or Thaiss (if he's still with the team). So, I think we would be better off as a team with Upton in LF and Marsh at 1B in 2021.

In 2022, Pujols is gone and Upton is in his last contract year so transition him to DH and have Marsh to LF.

It would be like Erstad's first full season in 1997 when he played 1B exclusively because we had already had Edmonds, Anderson and Salmon in the OF.  

I am not advocating that Upton is a good solution for 1B, I am advocating that Marsh belongs in the outfield period and you are better off putting any other Angels player, other than Simmons, Fletcher, or Rendon whom already are embedded defensively at their positions.

[Vlad27Trout27]

Marsh ranked at 79 on mlb top 100 prospect list.

[ettin]

55 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

what makes no sense is the notion that Upton can play 1b.  His terrible hands are what make him a poor defender in LF. The upgrade in OF defense by putting Marsh over Upton is completely offset or even worse by putting Upton in a spot where he touches the ball a lot more.  

Upton has never fielded an IF ground ball his entire career.  

If Upton is healthy and hitting well, Marsh isn't replacing him any time soon yet if Marsh's bat is ready and there is an opportunity to improve the offense by getting him in the lineup ie like if our 1b production is struggling because La Stella isn't doing well, Thaiss doesn't turn a corner or Albert is being Albert, then it makes a ton of sense to see if the super athletic Marsh has an aptitude for 1b.  And to find that out in the minors where it doesn't impact wins and losses at the major league level.  

It costs you nothing to add some positional versatility to Marsh's game.  I don't think anyone is suggesting this as a long term solution, just an opportunity to create additional depth at another position.  

I think people massively underrate 1b defense and the impact a premier defender can have at that position.  

Neither has Trout, Adell, or Marsh. All that we are talking about here is Marsh's suitability for playing 1B and he is a greater asset in the outfield and you are better off, overall, taking virtually any other outfielder and putting them at 1B and replacing them with Brandon in the outfield. I don't like the idea of Upton at 1B but the trade-off between him and Marsh seems very clear to me. You are conflating my understanding of good defense at any position with the specific set of Angels outfielders and their best configuration of team defense between all three OF positions and 1B. My opinion is that if you HAD to add Marsh (which is what the originator of this comment did by placing him at 1B), you would be better of sacrificing Upton in at 1B, defensively, and putting Marsh in the outfield. Yes versatility is great! But the Andrelton Simmons and Brandon Marsh's of the world belong in their natural habitat.

[Docwaukee]

23 minutes ago, ettin said:

Sure you can take any good defender and put them at 1B and they will probably have some success but the trade-off the other way is much higher in my opinion. Upton isn't as complete a disaster as we like to make out here.

as a 1bman?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've never seen him play there.  

a LFer is responsible for about 2 attempts per game.  

a 1bman gets about 1.5 per game plus the other 8 times per game where the infielder throws them the ball for the PO.  Plus going back on shallow hits where the OFer fields the ball.  Plus being in position for relays and cutoffs or backing up bases.  Plus fielding throws from the pitcher on pickoff moves that don't even get recorded by any stat.  Can you imagine Upton's learning curve on fielding a bunt and knowing which base to throw to?  Have you ever watched players practice PFPs?  Do you know how hard it is to make a throw to a pitcher sprinting toward the bag when you've fielded a ball half way between 1st and 2b?  

What about all the nuanced play like knowing which pitch is coming and how that impacts your likely first step or the typical spin of the ball off the bat to the left side of the OF vs. the right side of the IF?  

There are obvious challenges with being a good OFer as well.  In particular jumps and route running which has almost no application to 1b.  Otherwise though, it's hit the cutoff man.  

I think what I'm saying is that it's much easier to be a mediocre or even below avg OFer than it is to be a mediocre to below avg 1bman.  It might be more difficult to be an above average OFer than above age 1bman though.  1b is so much more interactive that the baseline for adequate is so much higher than it is for the OF.  

I am not even remotely confident in Upton achieving that baseline.  

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, ettin said:

Put it a different way: You can take ANY other Angels outfielder and put him at 1B and put Marsh in their place and the team will be improved defensively and offensively in my opinion. I don't care pick Upton, Trout, or Adell and put them at 1B and Marsh in the outfield and you are likely to be improved. The point is that Marsh at 1B is NOT the optimum solution.

fair enough if you think that Marsh is that much better at OF defense than any of those guys.  But glossing over the importance of 1b defense is a mistake.  It's not a DH.  It's actually difficult.  

If you are looking at cumulative defense at all four positions (ie all three OF spots plus 1b) then I agree to mix and match for the best outcome.  But 1b is not a throwaway.  I would contend that with Marsh's athleticism and baseball savvy, he could add value to that cumulative.  Because, again, let's be honest.  No one is displacing Trout from CF any time soon and it's unlikely that Upton is getting displaced either.  Plus, we are talking about Marsh getting some time at 1b in the minors.  Throw Adell in that mix too.  Who cares what happens at AAA?  If you want to clear a path for your top prospects to the majors then you have to consider alternate routes.  

Getting Marsh some minor league games at 1b doesn't impact the major league club.  Throwing Upton at 1b does.  

[Docwaukee]

26 minutes ago, ettin said:

Neither has Trout, Adell, or Marsh. All that we are talking about here is Marsh's suitability for playing 1B and he is a greater asset in the outfield and you are better off, overall, taking virtually any other outfielder and putting them at 1B and replacing them with Brandon in the outfield. I don't like the idea of Upton at 1B but the trade-off between him and Marsh seems very clear to me. You are conflating my understanding of good defense at any position with the specific set of Angels outfielders and their best configuration of team defense between all three OF positions and 1B. My opinion is that if you HAD to add Marsh (which is what the originator of this comment did by placing him at 1B), you would be better of sacrificing Upton in at 1B, defensively, and putting Marsh in the outfield. Yes versatility is great! But the Andrelton Simmons and Brandon Marsh's of the world belong in their natural habitat.

but you're not asking Marsh to do this at the major league level.  

[ettin]

25 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

as a 1bman?  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you've never seen him play there.  

a LFer is responsible for about 2 attempts per game.  

a 1bman gets about 1.5 per game plus the other 8 times per game where the infielder throws them the ball for the PO.  Plus going back on shallow hits where the OFer fields the ball.  Plus being in position for relays and cutoffs or backing up bases.  Plus fielding throws from the pitcher on pickoff moves that don't even get recorded by any stat.  Can you imagine Upton's learning curve on fielding a bunt and knowing which base to throw to?  Have you ever watched players practice PFPs?  Do you know how hard it is to make a throw to a pitcher sprinting toward the bag when you've fielded a ball half way between 1st and 2b?  

What about all the nuanced play like knowing which pitch is coming and how that impacts your likely first step or the typical spin of the ball off the bat to the left side of the OF vs. the right side of the IF?  

There are obvious challenges with being a good OFer as well.  In particular jumps and route running which has almost no application to 1b.  Otherwise though, it's hit the cutoff man.  

I think what I'm saying is that it's much easier to be a mediocre or even below avg OFer than it is to be a mediocre to below avg 1bman.  It might be more difficult to be an above average OFer than above age 1bman though.  1b is so much more interactive that the baseline for adequate is so much higher than it is for the OF.  

I am not even remotely confident in Upton achieving that baseline.  

I didn't say 1B, I just said that he is not a total and complete disaster as an outfielder. Yes he is not good, I never said 1B.

All of this is hypothetical, Doc, neither of them (Upton or Marsh) have played 1B. Between Marsh and Upton at 1B and the other playing in the outfield, I would put Justin at 1B every time, even if he was a "disaster" there, because I believe Marsh's defense is best utilized in the outfield. That is all this discussion has ever been about. I think he could manage better than you or RMB believe, but I do agree he would not be good by any stretch of the imagination but when you compare to League average at 1B, he'd probably be above average in my opinion.

[ettin]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

fair enough if you think that Marsh is that much better at OF defense than any of those guys.  But glossing over the importance of 1b defense is a mistake.  It's not a DH.  It's actually difficult.  

If you are looking at cumulative defense at all four positions (ie all three OF spots plus 1b) then I agree to mix and match for the best outcome.  But 1b is not a throwaway.  I would contend that with Marsh's athleticism and baseball savvy, he could add value to that cumulative.  Because, again, let's be honest.  No one is displacing Trout from CF any time soon and it's unlikely that Upton is getting displaced either.  Plus, we are talking about Marsh getting some time at 1b in the minors.  Throw Adell in that mix too.  Who cares what happens at AAA?  If you want to clear a path for your top prospects to the majors then you have to consider alternate routes.  

Getting Marsh some minor league games at 1b doesn't impact the major league club.  Throwing Upton at 1b does.  

Never at any point did I say 1B defense isn't important.

[ettin]

9 minutes ago, RBM said:

Your scenario doesn’t allow 2021 lineups with both Marsh and Upton.

 I think we would be better off as a team in 2021 with Upton in LF and Marsh at 1B everyday and with Pujols at DH the 2 games per week that Ohtani doesn’t DH.

In 2022, Pujols is gone and Upton is in his last contract year so transition him to DH and have Marsh to LF.

It would be like Erstad's first full season in 1997 when he played 1B exclusively because we had already had Edmonds, Anderson and Salmon in the OF. 

Despite everyone's sudden passionate desire for Marsh (I am and have been one of them for a couple of years now) I don't think he should be in the Majors in 2020 and maybe 2021 (if he breaks out even further next year, great).

You are the one that suggested bringing him up to play 1B and I am simply saying that it would be better for the team to move Upton or any other of our outfielders over to 1B and let Marsh be excellent defensively in the outfield. That was all this discussion ever was about, the choice of where you put Marsh.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

Never at any point did I say 1B defense isn't important.

if you think Upton would be avg or above there then I guess I'm not sure what to say and I wholly disagree.  

the original comment was that RBM said he'd like to see Marsh get some starts at 1b in SLC this year.   This seems reasonable to me.  It costs you nothing.  

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

if you think Upton would be avg or above there then I guess I'm not sure what to say and I wholly disagree.  

the original comment was that RBM said he'd like to see Marsh get some starts at 1b in SLC this year.   This seems reasonable to me.  It costs you nothing.  

I completely missed the SLC part, so I thought we were talking about Major League level. I still stand by having Marsh play the outfield only though, nothing else makes any sense to me.

Doc I don't think Upton will be a good defender at 1B but it is possible, as a current MLB OF, that he could be average or above at 1B, compared the woefully bad defense League-wide at 1B right now. It is something we will probably disagree on when parsing out the details of this I just do not think he is as bad as you believe he will be but I do agree he will not set the world on fire.

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, ettin said:

Despite everyone's sudden passionate desire for Marsh (I am and have been one of them for a couple of years now) I don't think he should be in the Majors in 2020 and maybe 2021 (if he breaks out even further next year, great).

You are the one that suggested bringing him up to play 1B and I am simply saying that it would be better for the team to move Upton or any other of our outfielders over to 1B and let Marsh be excellent defensively in the outfield. That was all this discussion ever was about, the choice of where you put Marsh.

I am not even remotely saying that.  I am saying that he get a little time at 1b in the minors and if 1b is a position where we are struggling offensively then you've got a potential bat you can add to the lineup.  Which would likely be mid season.  Are you really saying that sometime in june or july you would just throw one of our OFers at 1b because Marsh' OF defense is so good?  That's absurd to me that you think Upton could just move to 1b one day while having never had one second of time there.  

There's collateral so it's not just about where you put Marsh.  

The original discussion was having Marsh get a little time at 1b in the minors.  Even if you end up with Upton at 1b by some miracle, how is that a bad idea?  

[Second Base]

Anyone that thinks Brandon Marsh is a better defender than Mike Trout either hasn't been paying attention is just being ridiculous.

Trout's first step is faster, his routes are better, he's better coming in, and he's better at the wall. Under way, Marsh is about as far as Trout. Certainly not faster, but definitely in the same vicinity. And his arm is stronger. Trout's throws are right on the money but Marsh's ball carries further. 

We in this thread all enjoy prospects, otherwise why post? But let's not be stupid and and proclaim a minor league part time CF would be better in CF in the major leagues than a gold glove caliber major league CF in the middle of his prime.

Edited January 25, 2020 by Second Base

[Second Base]

13 hours ago, RBM said:

I’d like to see Marsh get some starts at 1B this year in SLC. 

There's no harm in that at all. In fact, that's one of the best parts about AAA. Pena transitioned from relief to starting in AAA, Ward moved off catcher and over to 3B and then the OF. Walsh got a little more serious about pitching in AAA. Thaiss became a legitimately good defender at 3B because of his time in AAA. Jahmai Jones transitioned over to 2B in AA mostly, and now he's a decent defender over there. Shoot, Calhoun was a 1B in the Cal League coming up. It helped him get comfortable there and log the occasional appearance at 1B in the majors.

I would absolutely let Marsh log some innings at 1B. He's left handed, tall and athletic. He'd probably become comfortable and proficient there quickly. It doesn't mean it's a full on position change. Just creating an additional path to major league playing time. 

[Docwaukee]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

There's no harm in that at all. In fact, that's one of the best parts about AAA. Pena transitioned from relief to starting in AAA, Ward moved off catcher and over to 3B and then the OF. Walsh got a little more serious about pitching in AAA. Thaiss became a legitimately good defender at 3B because of his time in AAA. Jahmai Jones transitioned over to 2B in AA mostly, and now he's a decent defender over there. Shoot, Calhoun was a 1B in the Cal League coming up. It helped him get comfortable there and log the occasional appearance at 1B in the majors.

I would absolutely let Marsh log some innings at 1B. He's left handed, tall and athletic. He'd probably become comfortable and proficient there quickly. It doesn't mean it's a full on position change. Just creating an additional path to major league playing time. 

he throws RHed.  but I agree.  

[Second Base]

Just now, Dochalo said:

he throws RHed.  but I agree.  

Good catch.