In 2019, the Reds added Sonny Gray, Trevor Bauer, Alex Wood, Tanner Roark, and Wade Miley to their team

[Claude]

I know what a borderline starter looks like. 

[mulwin444]

Sonny Gray - Bad in 2016 and 2018, decent in 2017...three years of injury concerns and underperformance but Eppler should have totally grabbed him.

Trevor Bauer - Great "stuff" but complete headcase who has only has one season where he hasn't gotten in his own way, and he missed time due to injury.

Alex Wood - Made all of 7 starts due to injury and he was bad - but I'm sure it would have been different here.

Tanner Roark - Was "eh" with Cincy and "meh" with Oakland but we totally should have added him to our collection of 5 starters

Wade Miley - Was so awesome he pitched in one game in Houston's playoff run

People's hate-boner for Eppler is pretty amusing at times.

 

[floplag]

3 comments...
#1 I'm not sure i would consider most of that borderline aces but certainly upgrades.
#2 I think the Reds had a little more to offer than we do.  Our problem is that i dont think we match up well with a lot of teams as we cant really give pitching to get pitching.  
#3 How did that affect the standings again?   Dont get me wrong I dont mean to be a smart ass and I certainly applaud the effort but they still finished 12 games under 500 with a negative run differential. 

They pitched well, giving up fewer runs that anyone else in the division but StL, heck they gave up fewer than the Braves, Nats, pretty much every playoff team in the NL but the Dogs.   They simply didnt score enough.  They have made some offensive upgrades this off season and should be very much improved

[eligrba]

3 hours ago, DMVol said:

And the Reds won 75 games....

I was really getting into this "Eppler has no excuses" thread until you derailed my inertia.

[Stradling]

I agree that the Reds did a good job of acquiring starting pitching.  I agree Eppler hasn’t done a great job of acquiring starting pitching.  That’s about where the agreements end.  Bauer cost them Puig and left handed pitching prospect and the 41st ranked prospect in baseball.  They got Gray for something called a Shed Long.  To get Alex Wood they created some witchcraft with the Dodgers by trading Homer Bailey (who some are pissed the Angels didn’t sign) Matt Kemp and Puig were in the deal, Farmer was in the deal, the Reds also sent two prospects. So yea they acquired some arms, some were good, some were healthy, some were steals some were mistakes. 

[DMVol]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

....So yea they acquired some arms, some were good, some were healthy, some were steals some were mistakes. 

And they still won 75 games....

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, DMVol said:

And they still won 75 games....

Yep. 

[zenmaster]

9 minutes ago, DMVol said:

And they still won 75 games....

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep. 

Records don’t matter. They were a top 10 pitching staff. 
 

[Stradling]

Just now, zenmaster said:

Records don’t matter. They were a top 10 pitching staff. 
 

Obviously if we had a top ten staff we would have won more than 75 games. What’s funny is the Reds are getting praise in this thread for acquiring Wood who pitched 7 games, but to get him they gave up Homer Bailey who had a better year. 

[nate]

42 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Sonny Gray - Bad in 2016 and 2018, decent in 2017...three years of injury concerns and underperformance but Eppler should have totally grabbed him.

Trevor Bauer - Great "stuff" but complete headcase who has only has one season where he hasn't gotten in his own way, and he missed time due to injury.

Alex Wood - Made all of 7 starts due to injury and he was bad - but I'm sure it would have been different here.

Tanner Roark - Was "eh" with Cincy and "meh" with Oakland but we totally should have added him to our collection of 5 starters

Wade Miley - Was so awesome he pitched in one game in Houston's playoff run

People's hate-boner for Eppler is pretty amusing at times.

 

And a ton of money invested in them which is exactly why Eppler has not given those guys big contracts and stuck with 1 year contracts.

[nate]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Obviously if we had a top ten staff we would have won more than 75 games. What’s funny is the Reds are getting praise in this thread for acquiring Wood who pitched 7 games, but to get him they gave up Homer Bailey who had a better year. 

They were top 5 when you consider number of runs given up.

So, they needed offense.  Seems like terrible GM work.

[DMVol]

Just now, Stradling said:

Obviously if we had a top ten staff we would have won more than 75 games. What’s funny is the Reds are getting praise in this thread for acquiring Wood who pitched 7 games, but to get him they gave up Homer Bailey who had a better year. 

There is just no perfect formula, except maybe having a strong farm where you grow your own, on at least a reasonably consistent basis.....Billy Beane does as good a job of finding the "right" reclamation projects as anybody---Bailey, Cahill (18), Anderson last year....many others.....but you can't count on that, even if you're as good as Beane....he's had a few Harveys and the 19 Cahill also....just has done a really good job overall at it....as has Tampa....

[Justin]

58 minutes ago, Jay said:

We can argue about the "borderline ace" thing but I would be pleased if Eppler brought in a couple of #2's

Harvey and Cahill were a couple of deuces. 

[zenmaster]

3 minutes ago, SoPas Angel said:

Harvey and Cahill were a couple of deuces. 

Let us not forget Stratton and Allen. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, zenmaster said:

Let us not forget Stratton and Allen. 

Stratton was a deal made the day before the season started because Heaney got hurt. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

At the time the Reds got Sonny Gray he was exactly the type of “reclamation project” that Eppler is often criticized for signing. 

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

At the time the Reds got Sonny Gray he was exactly the type of “reclamation project” that Eppler is often criticized for signing. 

And cost them a prospect probably on par with Luis Rengifo/Jahmai Jones/Matt Thaiss.

Bauer also cost them an MLB Top 20 prospect - someone in the Adell range. Other pieces involved that deal too, but, he wasn't cheap.

[floplag]

The bottom line here for me is simple, to win in this league you have to both hit and pitch.  You can pitch well as the Reds did last year, and still be sub 500 if you dont score.  This is why im not ALL about pitching.  
We are in a very good position right now to have a very balanced club in '20.  If we fill in the gap at C with someone who can actually hit a little we wont really have any gaps in the lineup and fill out the rotation with guys who will keep us in the game we will be in very solid shape for a post season run.  Maybe more if one or two of the young arms take the next steps and become the #1ish guy we need.

[UndertheHalo]

I just think it’s funny that some people apparently can’t conceive of the guys the Angels already have putting together decent years.  We already have a bunch of guys in the Tanner Roark, Wade Miley tier.  Guys probably better.  Sonny Gray was a roll of the dice.  The guys we bet on sucked.  That’s shitty and sure, Eppler can be blamed for that.  And Bauer, this brings us back to the what can/should we trade issue.  The Reds had more depth in their system.  

[Stradling]

12 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I just think it’s funny that some people apparently can’t conceive of the guys the Angels already have putting together decent years.  We already have a bunch of guys in the Tanner Roark, Wade Miley tier.  Guys probably better.  Sonny Gray was a roll of the dice.  The guys we bet on sucked.  That’s shitty and sure, Eppler can be blamed for that.  And Bauer, this brings us back to the what can/should we trade issue.  The Reds had more depth in their system.  

Could you imagine if Eppler traded Marsh (I use him as the trade piece because he is ranked 36th and Trammel who they gave up was ranked 41st) for Bauer and he pitched for the Angels like he did for the Reds.  He had a 6.39 ERA for the Reds.  

[UndertheHalo]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Could you imagine if Eppler traded Marsh (I use him as the trade piece because he is ranked 36th and Trammel who they gave up was ranked 41st) for Bauer and he pitched for the Angels like he did for the Reds.  He had a 6.39 ERA for the Reds.  

Ya exactly.  And I think people don’t emphasize enough what a weird dude Trevor Bauer is.  That is a liability.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, nate said:

They were top 5 when you consider number of runs given up.

So, they needed offense.  Seems like terrible GM work.

You make an excellent point.  So the Reds are getting praise for getting all this pitching while their offense isn’t all that great.  That would be like Eppler getting praise for getting Rendon when he needed pitching.  

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

So yea they acquired some arms, some were good, some were healthy, some were steals some were mistakes. 

And two are gone.

[Rally Gorilla]

16 hours ago, mymerlincat said:

The Reds added several quality SPs to their team over the course of a year, some of who are borderline aces.  I think this is a good reminder to anyone who acts there’s any excuse for our failure to acquire good starters over Eppler’s tenure.  It can be done, and it can be done fast.  We need to be much more aggressive.

But....the Reds finished with a .463 record and 16 games out.    That's part of the reason I was glad we didn't end up with Cole....one guy, by himself, wasn't going to get us competitive and the contract was likely to keep us from making the many moves it is going to take to get us there.  

[Angel Oracle]

Just sign Wood, as reports say that he is healthy.    He was solid in 2017-2018, pitching just over 300 innings in that timeframe.