Could Dylan Bundy be better than we think?

[robblin17]

Let's face it, at this point of the offseason, none of us thought our biggest pitching acquisitions would be Bundy and Teheran. Knowing that not much else appears to be on the horizon any time soon, I started to dig in to Bundy a little bit more. For whatever reason, I kept thinking about a correlation between Bundy and Arrieta for the obvious reasons. Not only were they both Orioles pitching in Baltimore's bandbox, but they were also both promising young talents that never really materialized in Baltimore. On top of that they both ended up on a Joe Maddon coached team, which makes me think that Maddon could have been a reason for the Bundy trade (Maddon was hired by the Cubs in 2014 after the Cubs acquired Arrieta at the 2013 TDL).  

So, I started to look deeper and it seems the two have some similarities just based on their top level peripherals.

Bundy - Age 26 Season

• 4.79 ERA
• 4.73 FIP
• 1.355 WHIP
• 9.0 H/9
• 1.6 HR/9
• 3.2 BB/9
• 9.0 SO/9

Arrieta - Age 26 Season

• 6.20 ERA
• 4.05 FIP
• 1.369 WHIP
• 9.6 H/9
• 1.3 HR/9
• 2.7 BB/9
• 8.6 SO/9

Now, when looking into Bundy more, I came across this article from Going Deep: https://www.pitcherlist.com/going-deep-dylan-bundy-should-make-a-few-simple-changes/

To summarize, the article talks about a comparison between Bundy and Corbin and the desire for Bundy to adjust his pitch mix with increases in slider and changeup usage. The article also notes a change in Bundy's pitch mix starting at the end of 2019. Bundy significantly bumped up his sinker usage, which helped his HR/FB and HR/9 to come down to earth (and Bundy has always been killed by the long ball against his four seamer). Not only that, Bundy also saw improved changes to his ERA indicators as well as improvements to his fastball after the change, which has always been his worst pitch. The author wonders what a sinker, slider, changeup combination would look like for Bundy considering he began inducing many more groundballs instead of hard hit fly balls off his four seamer that resulted in HR's in Camden. 

Now I am not saying that Bundy is going to become Arrieta, far from it. Arrieta has always thrown his sinker pretty regularly and Bundy will probably never have the type of sinker that Arrieta uses. But I also think Bundy can be much better for a few reasons:

1. No longer pitching in Camden.
2. Callaway and Maddon
3. Increased usage of a sinker/slider/changeup combination

Time will tell. 

[UndertheHalo]

[Second Base]

In a word, no.

[robblin17]

I see the trolls are out in full force. I never said we did not need more pitching, guys. We definitely do. 

[Angels_Fan]

Bundy is who we think he is.

[robblin17]

Just now, Second Base said:

In a word, no.

Based on what?

[Inside Pitch]

Bundy is what he is.  Dude will eat innings.  At best he's got a 4.25 ERA season or two in him but his value comes from having been reliable for 28+ starts.... Ditto Teheran.   If you're looking to hope/wish on guys turn your gaze to Canning and Sandoval... Those are the guys who aren't yet finished products.  Maybe add an Alex Wood or Taijuan Walker and wish on their upsides along with Ohtani remaining healthy.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I just think the Angels see their young dudes as the upside plays and the stability of Teheran and Bundy as being neccessary.

[popo85]

Those numbers he put up  last year, would of made him our second best pitcher (sadly). 

[Second Base]

Based on his career, based on the 1000 pitchers that didn't get better for every one that did, based off the deterioration of his arsenal, hard off of Eppler's piss poor track record with starting pitchers he acquires...

[popo85]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Bundy is what he is.  Dude will eat innings.  At best he's got a 4.25 ERA season of two in him but his value comes from having been reliable for 28+ starts.... Ditto Teheran.   If you're looking to hope/wish on guys turn your gaze to Canning and Sandoval... Those are the guys who aren't get finished products.  Maybe add an Alex Wood or Taijuan Walker and wish on their upsides along with Ohtani remaining healthy.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I just think the Angels see their young dudes as the upside plays and the stability of Teheran and Bundy as being neccessary.

Teheran's been much more consistent then Bundy and could possibly be  a solid 2-3 starter

[robblin17]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Bundy is what he is.  Dude will eat innings.  At best he's got a 4.25 ERA season of two in him but his value comes from having been reliable for 28+ starts.... Ditto Teheran.   If you're looking to hope/wish on guys turn your gaze to Canning and Sandoval... Those are the guys who aren't yet finished products.  Maybe add an Alex Wood or Taijuan Walker and wish on their upsides along with Ohtani remaining healthy.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I just think the Angels see their young dudes as the upside plays and the stability of Teheran and Bundy as being neccessary.

I just have a hard time believing that guys are finished products at 26. Bundy has played on a shit ass team his entire career and in an extremely hitter friendly park. I don’t think it’s beyond reason to think that he can provide us with more than what he has shown in the past with a few adjustments to his approach. 

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, popo85 said:

Teheran's been much more consistent then Bundy and could possibly be  a solid 2-3 starter

Yes, he's definitely been better but he too is what he is.  It's unlikely he will be better than what he's already been and that seemed to be what was being asked regarding Bundy.

[Inside Pitch]

7 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

I just have a hard time believing that guys are finished products at 26. Bundy has played on a shit ass team his entire career and in an extremely hitter friendly park. I don’t think it’s beyond reason to think that he can provide us with more than what he has shown in the past with a few adjustments to his approach. 

Meh, I think he might be evolving but not so much into anything other than a reliable innings eater.  The days when he was pumping 100 mph are behind him and no coming back. 

I think you're assuming I have a negative view of what he is.  I dont, innings eaters have value.  Innings eaters that can give you an occasional 4.25 ERA are nice to have around.  But wishing on him to be a front end pitcher at this point is likely wishful thinking.

[Second Base]

In Bundy and Teheran, your getting exactly what you've paid for, which is a steady, unspectacular back of the rotation starter. Both are going to provide the Angels with 170+ innings and an ERA between 4.00-4.50. 

Nothing more, nothing less. And there's nothing wrong with that. The Angels needed that.

[robblin17]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Meh, I think he might be evolving but not so much into anything other than a reliable innings eater.  The days when he was pumping 100 mph are behind him and no coming back. 

I think you're assuming I have a negative view of what he is.  I dont, innings eaters have value.  Innings eaters that can give you an occasional 4.25 ERA are nice to have around.  But wishing on him to be a front end pitcher at this point is likely useful thinking.

Fair enough. I could obviously be totally wrong, but I’ll be interested to see what Bundy looks like if he doesn’t throw a four seam fastball 40% of the time. If memory serves me correctly I seem to recall Trout hitting some moonshots off of him. 

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

In Bundy and Teheran, your getting exactly what you've paid for, which is a steady, unspectacular back of the rotation starter. Both are going to provide the Angels with 170+ innings and an ERA between 4.00-4.50. 

Nothing more, nothing less. And there's nothing wrong with that. The Angels needed that.

We definitely needed that. Very true. And we STILL need PROVEN front end pitching. 

[Inside Pitch]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

In Bundy and Teheran, your getting exactly what you've paid for, which is a steady, unspectacular back of the rotation starter. Both are going to provide the Angels with 170+ innings and an ERA between 4.00-4.50. 

Nothing more, nothing less. And there's nothing wrong with that. The Angels needed that.

Exactly...    The upside plays are Ohtani, Canning and Sandoval.  We can still hope on them to be more....  Maybe Heaney if he ever develops a reliable third pitch.  But you gotta figure that if the Angels get 350-360 innings of 4.25-4.50 ball out of Teheran and Bundy they will be happy.

[UndertheHalo]

16 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Bundy is what he is.  Dude will eat innings.  At best he's got a 4.25 ERA season of two in him but his value comes from having been reliable for 28+ starts.... Ditto Teheran.   If you're looking to hope/wish on guys turn your gaze to Canning and Sandoval... Those are the guys who aren't yet finished products.  Maybe add an Alex Wood or Taijuan Walker and wish on their upsides along with Ohtani remaining healthy.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, I just think the Angels see their young dudes as the upside plays and the stability of Teheran and Bundy as being neccessary.

Ya I think Alex Wood is pretty interesting.  Walker also.  Definitely not guys to bank on tho. 

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

Fair enough. I could obviously be totally wrong, but I’ll be interested to see what Bundy looks like if he doesn’t throw a four seam fastball 40% of the time. If memory serves me correctly I seem to recall Trout hitting some moonshots off of him. 

We definitely needed that. Very true. And we STILL need PROVEN front end pitching. 

YUP!

[mmc]

Angelswin in October:  “We’re the favorites for Gerrit Cole, and we have the money to get Wheeler and Grandal too!”

 

Angelswin on December 22nd: “Could Dylan Bundy be better than we think?”

[ScottT]

9 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Angelswin in October:  “We’re the favorites for Gerrit Cole, and we have the money to get Wheeler and Grandal too!”

 

Angelswin on December 22nd: “Could Dylan Bundy be better than we think?”

Dumb

[Lou]

17 minutes ago, mymerlincat said:

Angelswin in October:  “We’re the favorites for Gerrit Cole, and we have the money to get Wheeler and Grandal too!”

Angelswin on December 22nd: “Could Dylan Bundy be better than we think?”

fixed 

[nate]

no

[CanadianHalo]

And it begins...

[Stradling]

Just now, CanadianHalo said:

And it begins...

What begins?  Bundy is exactly who he is.  Eppler isn’t going to panic and the Angels will more than likely be short pitching going into the season.  

[fan_since79]

"You stupid Angels fan! The Great Bundy doesn't exist! He's a product of your feverish imagination. When will you guys ever learn?! We missed out on the good pitchers, now we're set for another lousy rotation as we chase the second wild card!"