LAT: Angels Engaging in Talks w/ Ryu and Keuchel

[Cdaniel]

1 hour ago, ksangel said:

I have heard it said often on this site that Ryu shouldn't be signed because of his injury history and that he doesn't keep himself in shape (though he is pursuing a masters in Physical Education in Korea).

He had TJ surgery in 2004 as a 17 year old.

From 2006 to 2012 he averaged about 180 innings per season in Korea topping out at 211 in 2007.

He pitched 192 innings in 2013 and 152 innings in 2014 for the Dodgers.

He didn't pitch in 2015 because of labrum surgery and only 5 innings in 2016 because of debridement surgery on left elbow.

In 2017 he pitched 127 innings which is probably attributable to coming back from surgery.

In 2018 he pitched only 82 innings because of a groin injury - not an arm or shoulder injury - that placed him on the 60 day disabled list.

In 2019 he pitched 183 innings.

So yes 2015 and 2016 do make one wonder if his pitching arm/shoulder are breaking down but to be quite durable in the eleven other years he has pitched one has to wonder if 2015 and 2016 were blip's and he should judged by the other 11 years in which he has averaged 175 innings + per season.

He has top of the rotation pedigree versus Keuchel, who is nothing more than an inning eater now, and the Angels have enough of those types with signing Bundy and Teheran..

 

 

I'm on board with the upside of Ryu vs Kuechel because of the additions of inning eaters in Bundy and Teheran, though I would be happy with either.  My biggest concern was Ryu's injury history and this post calmed my fears quit a bit.  Thank you!

I think Ryu if given the choice would take less guaranteed money but incentive laden deal like Stradling mentioned over the Blue Jays, even if they offered a couple million more guaranteed.  The incentives deal from the Angels would need to exceeded the Blue Jays guaranteed offer though.  I think that would be fair for both sides.  Just a gut feeling.

[hangin n wangin]

4 hours ago, ksangel said:

I have heard it said often on this site that Ryu shouldn't be signed because of his injury history and that he doesn't keep himself in shape (though he is pursuing a masters in Physical Education in Korea).

He had TJ surgery in 2004 as a 17 year old.

From 2006 to 2012 he averaged about 180 innings per season in Korea topping out at 211 in 2007.

He pitched 192 innings in 2013 and 152 innings in 2014 for the Dodgers.

He didn't pitch in 2015 because of labrum surgery and only 5 innings in 2016 because of debridement surgery on left elbow.

In 2017 he pitched 127 innings which is probably attributable to coming back from surgery.

In 2018 he pitched only 82 innings because of a groin injury - not an arm or shoulder injury - that placed him on the 60 day disabled list.

In 2019 he pitched 183 innings.

So yes 2015 and 2016 do make one wonder if his pitching arm/shoulder are breaking down but to be quite durable in the eleven other years he has pitched one has to wonder if 2015 and 2016 were blip's and he should judged by the other 11 years in which he has averaged 175 innings + per season.

He has top of the rotation pedigree versus Keuchel, who is nothing more than an inning eater now, and the Angels have enough of those types with signing Bundy and Teheran..

 

 

No offense, but this post doesn't really make me feel better about signing him. What does it matter what he is studying in Korea? He's still fat and out of shape. I'm not against the signing because I think he has the most upside of any of the available pitchers, but if this was meant to be a reassuring post about signing him, it didn't work for me. You just went through his injury history showing how much time this guy has missed in the last 5 years and showed that he pitched a lot of innings in Korea as far back as 13 years ago.

[Mark68]

I'll break it down here: Ryu has much MUCH better stuff than Keuchel. By far. He would be a #1 on most teams. 

 

Keuchel's main selling point is that he's a workhorse. That's all fine and good, but if that's your main selling point, you don't really offer that much. 

[eaterfan]

15 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I'll break it down here: Ryu has much MUCH better stuff than Keuchel. By far. He would be a #1 on most teams. 

 

Keuchel's main selling point is that he's a workhorse. That's all fine and good, but if that's your main selling point, you don't really offer that much. 

You are underselling Keuchel. Teheran is an innings eater. DK is much more than that. His ERA+ the last three seasons has been 141, 111, 121. I agree with you that Ryu has much higher upside, but it's not like you are going into a Keuchel start hoping he'll make it through 6.2 and you can turn it over to a dominant bullpen. His 111 ERA+ is as high as CJ Wilson's best best season with the Angels and that was DK's worst of the last 3. Outside of Lackey's dominant 2007 (150 ERA+) Dallas Keuchel's last 3 years have been in line with what Lackey did when he pitched well for the Angels. 

Also, the game has changed so much. I was looking at CJ Wilson's innings pitched with the Angels. He had a reputation for not going deep into games because he walked so many guys nibbling on the corners. He threw 202 and 212 inning his first 2 years and then 175 his third year. The forth year was only about 21 starts.