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UndertheHalo

Did we really have to trade Will Wilson to get Rendon ?

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6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Wonder what is going on with Bradley Zimmer...  Gotta figure if healthy he starts over Deshields.   I know he had a rough go of it in September but it's curious to see how hard they pushed for a CFer.

Actually totally forgot about Zimmer, that is really strange. Bradley sure has bombed to-date offensively which is a bit surprising but he has had injuries. DeShields isn't much better. Bizarre, makes you wonder.

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4 minutes ago, RBM said:

1. We didn’t offer Marsh, the Indians asked for Marsh based on this thread.

2. This was never about Jeff. His tweet was posted as a reply after I asked why?

3. The why hasn’t changed. I asked why the Indians would ask one team for prospects and another team for MLB players. It seemed strange to me. 

It stands to reason that the Indians were looking for a certain type of MLB-ready player. Since we didn’t have that type of player, it’s not surprising they were asking for more in “value” from our prospects, since well...they’re prospects. They’re not a guarantee.

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7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Wonder what is going on with Bradley Zimmer...  Gotta figure if healthy he starts over Deshields.   I know he had a rough go of it in September but it's curious to see how hard they pushed for a CFer.

Yep. And Oscar Mercado is still listed ahead of DeShields on the depth chart. Makes me think maybe this was more about getting Emmanuel Clase. 

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1 hour ago, RBM said:

We were discussing the Kluber trade and someone said they asked for Marsh and Deveaux. Two prospects. We know they ended up with Clase and DeShields. Two MLB players. It seemed like two different paths to me.

So I suggested this did not make sense because one proposal was prospects a year or more away from being ready and the other was major league players ready to step into everyday roles. I asked if we had confirmation if Marsh was a deal breaker. The post is below.

 "I didn't see that. Do we have confirmation? Did we confirm Cleveland was  asking for Marsh and he was the deal breaker? They traded Kluber for an elite MLB closer and a young MLB CF'er. I don't think they were looking for a collection of prospects making their debuts from 2021 to 2023."

Their response was your tweet from Sunday saying they wanted two top ten prospects including Marsh. I responded you were wrong based on the fact they traded for MLB players not MiLB prospects.

I am so confused. 
 

I said they wanted Marsh and another prospect from the Angels. So what was I wrong about? 
 

Teams don’t ask for the same thing from every trade partner because the teams don’t have the same things available. 

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I am so confused. 
 

I said they wanted Marsh and another prospect from the Angels. So what was I wrong about? 
 

Teams don’t ask for the same thing from every trade partner because the teams don’t have the same things available. 

Got it. I thought it strange they asked us for prospects but ended up with MLB players. Thanks. 

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2 minutes ago, RBM said:

Got it. I thought it strange they asked us for prospects but ended up with MLB players. Thanks. 

They clearly didn’t like what the Angels had to offer in terms of major leaguers, so they just asked for the moon in terms of prospects. 
 

Thats why the trade didn’t happen. 99 percent of trades don’t. 

Edited by Jeff Fletcher

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6 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Why was it a piss poor pick? 

Wilson is a shortstop that won't be able to play shortstop in the big leagues, meaning he will need to move to 2B. He's a good, not great hitter, with decent, but not great plate discipline and decent but not great power and below average speed for his position. He was drafted into a minor league and major league system that already has David Fletcher, Luis Rengifo, Jahmai Jones, Jeremiah Jackson and Livan Soto, all playing same position as he did. He left the board with Jackson Rutledge still being available, and being one of the rare JC arms that projects toward the top of a rotation. Last time I remember that resource being available was Patrick Corbin.

Wilson followed his draft by going to the hitter friendly Pioneer League and laying a dud as far as performance goes. Not damning at all, but also not the most encouraging either. And while I do believe he has the well rounded skill set to be a major league, it's highly doubtful he has the potential to be anything more than a run of the mill starting 2B, if that. That's still a good outcome, but simply isn't what this team needed.

All things considered, yeah, it was a piss poor pick. In my own personal rankings, I put both Kyren Paris and Kochanowicz ahead of him. Wilson was the sort of guy I would've targeted in the 3rd or 4th round, right around when guys like Alex Yarborough leave the draft board. Guys that did well in college and can hit, but lack the upside. 

Edited by Second Base

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It's a dumb move until that money gets used to improve the team.  

even if that happens, Eppler either made a terrible pick and was smart enough to cut his losses which means he wasted an entire year of scouting for the 1st round or he gave away a valuable player whether it be for the major league club or future trade value.  

If Wilson has a good 2020, he probably moves into the top 100 and that's one less piece available.  

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I’m with you that I don’t feel great about selling prospects to pay off bad contracts because the Angels system isn’t considered to be loaded on the whole, though not barren like it used to be. However, the system seems heavy on SS prospects. Even after this trade, 6 of their top 30 prospects are listed as SS, so it seems like they dealt from a position of strength. The move seems reasonable enough in that light and for me, if they use this money to sign Ryu, I’ll quickly forget about Wilson. 

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1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

It's a dumb move until that money gets used to improve the team.  

even if that happens, Eppler either made a terrible pick and was smart enough to cut his losses which means he wasted an entire year of scouting for the 1st round or he gave away a valuable player whether it be for the major league club or future trade value.  

If Wilson has a good 2020, he probably moves into the top 100 and that's one less piece available.  

Yeah, the whole deal is strange. A GM makes a terrible FA signing and two years later he uses his 1st round #15 pick to get rid of that terrible FA signing. The timing of it is also a question. I’m guessing he thought he had a deal in place for two and needed the financial flexibility or maybe he just jumped on the first offer to take on Cozart’s contract

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5 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They clearly didn’t like what the Angels had to offer in terms of major leaguers, so they just asked for the moon in terms of prospects. 
 

Thats why the trade didn’t happen. 99 percent of trades don’t. 

Do you hear of this very often with teams? A situation where a team wants MLB players because they want to win now but instead they ask a team for high end prospects that are not yet ready for the MLB? Therefore changing their direction based on another team’s assets? In my experience in negotiating I never ask for something that is not in line with my goals. 

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4 hours ago, RBM said:

Do you hear of this very often with teams? A situation where a team wants MLB players because they want to win now but instead they ask a team for high end prospects that are not yet ready for the MLB? Therefore changing their direction based on another team’s assets? In my experience in negotiating I never ask for something that is not in line with my goals. 

Well I’d think there would be other ways to pick up a closer and CFer if they did the deal for prospects. 

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7 hours ago, RBM said:

Do you hear of this very often with teams? A situation where a team wants MLB players because they want to win now but instead they ask a team for high end prospects that are not yet ready for the MLB? Therefore changing their direction based on another team’s assets? In my experience in negotiating I never ask for something that is not in line with my goals. 

All teams explore multiple ways to get where they want to go all the time. Did you think the Angels would get Rendon 2 weeks ago?
 

The Indians “goal” is to win, and there are different ways to get there. 
 

And we don’t know if they preferred the Clase package to a Marsh package. Maybe they’d have rather had the Marsh package, but the Angels wouldn’t give it up. All we know is they preferred the Clase package to what the Angels were willing to give up, and we don’t know what that is. 

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

All teams explore multiple ways to get where they want to go all the time. Did you think the Angels would get Rendon 2 weeks ago?
 

The Indians “goal” is to win, and there are different ways to get there. 
 

And we don’t know if they preferred the Clase package to a Marsh package. Maybe they’d have rather had the Marsh package, but the Angels wouldn’t give it up. All we know is they preferred the Clase package to what the Angels were willing to give up, and we don’t know what that is. 

Hopefully it was a bag of old jock straps that scioscia left in his locker....or can you confirm he took them with him upon his exit?

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There is nothing saying that the Indians have to keep what we would have traded them. They may look at them as a traceable assets that they could have used to get what they want. Hell, they could have already had a possible trade partner, in a rebuilding situation, that would have netted them a MLB or MLB ready player. 

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On 12/16/2019 at 11:06 PM, UndertheHalo said:

The more I think about them dumping Wilson for essentially 13 million dollars the more I’m kind of bothered about it.  Yes, I know Wilson wasn’t a super star in the making (most likely) but he is a solid 50 grade prospect and I don’t know.  Dumping him for 13 million bucks seems whack.  The Angels aren’t loaded.  Couldn’t they have just eaten it for 1 year ? Using prospects as a means of clearing money seems like a shitty thing.  I appreciate that we got Rendon.  Thrilled about it.  But did they really need to...I mean let’s face it.  Just throw away Wilson ?

Eppler cleaning up the mess he created. Cozart was due $12.7 M in 2020. Wilson got a $3.4 M signing bonus in June.

It's a $16.1 M cleanup. 

Nice job Eppler! 

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