Did we really have to trade Will Wilson to get Rendon ?

[Stradling]

34 minutes ago, RBM said:

Well, based on what the Indians did, @Jeff Fletcherwas wrong. 

The Indians wanted MLB players not MiLB prospects. They got an MLB closer and an MLB CF'er. for Kluber.

This is such shit.  You have no idea if he’s wrong. 

[tdawg87]

41 minutes ago, RBM said:

Well, based on what the Indians did, @Jeff Fletcherwas wrong. 

The Indians wanted MLB players not MiLB prospects. They got an MLB closer and an MLB CF'er. for Kluber.

Dumb.

[Inside Pitch]

What part of Fletcher's tweet is wrong?  The part where he relays was he was told they were asking from the Angels or the part where he says the Indians really liked Clase?

Did posts get pulled or something?

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

Well, based on what the Indians did, @Jeff Fletcherwas wrong. 

The Indians wanted MLB players not MiLB prospects. They got an MLB closer and an MLB CF'er. for Kluber.

I’ve been wrong plenty of times on stuff I thought was going to happen. I try to never be wrong reporting things that have happened. 
 

But what are you referring to?

[T.G.]

[2112]

4 hours ago, eaterfan said:

You don't know that.

I though you were @tdawg87 for a second there.  

[AngelsFanSince86]

12 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Not sure if anyone can still say arte is "cheap".

He ate like 75 mill on hamilton. And in the last 12 months, bought the stadium, gave trout the richest contract in sports history, extended upton, and gave rendon over 200 mill, after offering cole 300.

I doubt he.... was too cheap to eat 12 mill.

 

12 hours ago, Lou said:

and with that, everyone should shut tf up 

 

9 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

You forgot to mention he was too cheap to go 8 years on Rendon.

Yeah, that was kind of my point though.  I don't really think it was because he is cheap so they were willing to trade a highly valued prospect just to save $12M.

The main reason has to be that they didn't value Wilson nearly as much as they did on draft day.  And that, to me, is an issue regardless of what they do the rest of the offseason.  It seems incredible to me that you could value someone enough to take them with your first round pick and after 46 games realize what everyone else seemed to already know (since most of what I read at the time was that they reached for him).  

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

This is such shit.  You have no idea if he’s wrong. 

Plus Clase has only pitched for part of one MLB season.   That hardly qualifies him as a team’s closer at this point.

[Troll Daddy]

It was reported that the Giants were thinking of drafting him with their 10th pick ... instead they get him for free and without paying the slot money. Even if Cozart doesn’t play it’s a win for the Giants. 

Unfortunately, It’s a trade the Angels had to make that leaves a sour taste in your 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Unfortunately, It’s a trade the Angels had to make that leaves a sour taste in your 

[ten ocho recon scout]

23 minutes ago, AngelsFanSince86 said:

 

 

Yeah, that was kind of my point though.  I don't really think it was because he is cheap so they were willing to trade a highly valued prospect just to save $12M.

The main reason has to be that they didn't value Wilson nearly as much as they did on draft day.  And that, to me, is an issue regardless of what they do the rest of the offseason.  It seems incredible to me that you could value someone enough to take them with your first round pick and after 46 games realize what everyone else seemed to already know (since most of what I read at the time was that they reached for him).  

Yeah, who knows.

If I remember correctly, he was too highly thought of when we drafted him. It seems, at least on the surface, that we screwed up that pick, which sucks.

But, if that is the case, aim glad we at least used him to get some value, rather than as a farm name we lose interest in after awhile.

 

[Troll Daddy]

6 hours ago, Second Base said:

We're still talking about Will Wilson, the one piss poor pick that Eppler has made? 

Why was it a piss poor pick? 

[GregAlso]

4 hours ago, RBM said:

Well, based on what the Indians did, @Jeff Fletcherwas wrong. 

The Indians wanted MLB players not MiLB prospects. They got an MLB closer and an MLB CF'er. for Kluber.

This was reported after the trade the Indians had already made. He already knew what they had done. Teams value prospects differently. You literally asked how we know this info and then when shown you denied it. You refuse knowledge and choose to stay foolish because the info doesn’t match your idea of how the world works.

Now, pray tell us, and Jeff Fletcher himself, why Jeff would report that news almost a day after the trade if it was blatantly untrue? You don’t think he knew how the industry valued the trade? What is Jeff’s motivation? You think he just makes stuff up? 
 

Maybe you should think before you write dumb stuff online?

[Inside Pitch]

36 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

It was reported that the Giants were thinking of drafting him with their 10th pick ... instead they get him for free and without paying the slot money. Even if Cozart doesn’t play it’s a win for the Giants. 

Unfortunately, It’s a trade the Angels had to make that leaves a sour taste in your 

Free?   

So, did Cozart agree to forgo his 13 Mil in salary this year as part of this trade?

[ettin]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

 

Although I do agree with Fletcher's conclusion about Clase, I would also point out that the center field market is fairly sparse this off-season and it could be that the Indians were trying to find a CF and found the prices to expensive (Starling Marte or Jackie Bradley Jr. for example) and decided that getting Delino and Clase had the right value combination based on what they would have to expend in trade for similar players from other teams.

Basically the calculus on their end was to find a center fielder which was why they demanded Brandon but ultimately went with the Deshields/Clase combo because it satisfied their needs the best out of what they could reasonably get in a return for Kluber.

[GregAlso]

14 minutes ago, RBM said:

We were discussing the Kluber trade and someone said they asked for Marsh and Deveaux. Two prospects. We know they ended up with Clase and DeShields. Two MLB players. It seemed like two different paths to me.

So I suggested this did not make sense because one proposal was prospects a year or more away from being ready and the other was major league players ready to step into everyday roles. I asked if we had confirmation if Marsh was a deal breaker. The post is below.

 "I didn't see that. Do we have confirmation? Did we confirm Cleveland was  asking for Marsh and he was the deal breaker? They traded Kluber for an elite MLB closer and a young MLB CF'er. I don't think they were looking for a collection of prospects making their debuts from 2021 to 2023."

Their response was your tweet from Sunday saying they wanted two top ten prospects including Marsh. I responded you were wrong based on the fact they traded for MLB players not MiLB prospects.

The deal was already reported and confirmed by the time Jeff tweeted this out on Sunday. By the time Jeff’s tweet came out the entire deal was reported, even though it wasn’t yet official. That’s how this works in baseball twitter, deals are announced by reporters a few days before they are officially announced. I’m explaining that to you because you seem to not understand that.
 

So, as you dig a deeper hole of foolishness for yourself, answer this question, why would Jeff make this report up after already knowing the information you are pointing to as proving his post wrong? 
 

Do you think he doesn’t know that they got major league ready talent and that we were offering minor leaguers? Do you think he doesn’t understand the trade market? Basically Do you think that Jeff doesn’t know the industry he is PAID to report on? Does that sound like a very smart post to you? 

[Inside Pitch]

37 minutes ago, ettin said:

Basically the calculus on their end was to find a center fielder which was why they demanded Brandon but ultimately went with the Deshields/Clase combo because it satisfied their needs the best out of what they could reasonably get in a return for Kluber.

Wonder what is going on with Bradley Zimmer...  Gotta figure if healthy he starts over Deshields.   I know he had a rough go of it in September but it's curious to see how hard they pushed for a CFer.

[ettin]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Wonder what is going on with Bradley Zimmer...  Gotta figure if healthy he starts over Deshields.   I know he had a rough go of it in September but it's curious to see how hard they pushed for a CFer.

Actually totally forgot about Zimmer, that is really strange. Bradley sure has bombed to-date offensively which is a bit surprising but he has had injuries. DeShields isn't much better. Bizarre, makes you wonder.

[ADHB]

4 minutes ago, RBM said:

1. We didn’t offer Marsh, the Indians asked for Marsh based on this thread.

2. This was never about Jeff. His tweet was posted as a reply after I asked why?

3. The why hasn’t changed. I asked why the Indians would ask one team for prospects and another team for MLB players. It seemed strange to me. 

It stands to reason that the Indians were looking for a certain type of MLB-ready player. Since we didn’t have that type of player, it’s not surprising they were asking for more in “value” from our prospects, since well...they’re prospects. They’re not a guarantee.

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

We were discussing the Kluber trade and someone said they asked for Marsh and Deveaux. Two prospects. We know they ended up with Clase and DeShields. Two MLB players. It seemed like two different paths to me.

So I suggested this did not make sense because one proposal was prospects a year or more away from being ready and the other was major league players ready to step into everyday roles. I asked if we had confirmation if Marsh was a deal breaker. The post is below.

 "I didn't see that. Do we have confirmation? Did we confirm Cleveland was  asking for Marsh and he was the deal breaker? They traded Kluber for an elite MLB closer and a young MLB CF'er. I don't think they were looking for a collection of prospects making their debuts from 2021 to 2023."

Their response was your tweet from Sunday saying they wanted two top ten prospects including Marsh. I responded you were wrong based on the fact they traded for MLB players not MiLB prospects.

I am so confused. 
 

I said they wanted Marsh and another prospect from the Angels. So what was I wrong about? 
 

Teams don’t ask for the same thing from every trade partner because the teams don’t have the same things available. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 minutes ago, RBM said:

Got it. I thought it strange they asked us for prospects but ended up with MLB players. Thanks. 

They clearly didn’t like what the Angels had to offer in terms of major leaguers, so they just asked for the moon in terms of prospects. 
 

Thats why the trade didn’t happen. 99 percent of trades don’t. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Jeff Fletcher

[beatlesrule]

 

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Why was it a piss poor pick? 

Wilson is a shortstop that won't be able to play shortstop in the big leagues, meaning he will need to move to 2B. He's a good, not great hitter, with decent, but not great plate discipline and decent but not great power and below average speed for his position. He was drafted into a minor league and major league system that already has David Fletcher, Luis Rengifo, Jahmai Jones, Jeremiah Jackson and Livan Soto, all playing same position as he did. He left the board with Jackson Rutledge still being available, and being one of the rare JC arms that projects toward the top of a rotation. Last time I remember that resource being available was Patrick Corbin.

Wilson followed his draft by going to the hitter friendly Pioneer League and laying a dud as far as performance goes. Not damning at all, but also not the most encouraging either. And while I do believe he has the well rounded skill set to be a major league, it's highly doubtful he has the potential to be anything more than a run of the mill starting 2B, if that. That's still a good outcome, but simply isn't what this team needed.

All things considered, yeah, it was a piss poor pick. In my own personal rankings, I put both Kyren Paris and Kochanowicz ahead of him. Wilson was the sort of guy I would've targeted in the 3rd or 4th round, right around when guys like Alex Yarborough leave the draft board. Guys that did well in college and can hit, but lack the upside. 

Edited December 18, 2019 by Second Base

[Docwaukee]

It's a dumb move until that money gets used to improve the team.  

even if that happens, Eppler either made a terrible pick and was smart enough to cut his losses which means he wasted an entire year of scouting for the 1st round or he gave away a valuable player whether it be for the major league club or future trade value.  

If Wilson has a good 2020, he probably moves into the top 100 and that's one less piece available.  

[JBR]

I’m with you that I don’t feel great about selling prospects to pay off bad contracts because the Angels system isn’t considered to be loaded on the whole, though not barren like it used to be. However, the system seems heavy on SS prospects. Even after this trade, 6 of their top 30 prospects are listed as SS, so it seems like they dealt from a position of strength. The move seems reasonable enough in that light and for me, if they use this money to sign Ryu, I’ll quickly forget about Wilson.