Did we really have to trade Will Wilson to get Rendon ?

[Jeff Fletcher]

37 minutes ago, nate said:

The Angels are not finished so it is a bit early to say we did it just for Rendon...

^^^^
They still need at least one pitcher and a catcher. They still may spend another $30M.
 

Their payroll is likely be $20-30M higher than last year, so it would have been $33-43M higher if they hadn’t saved the money on Cozart. 

Also, they got back a pitching prospect who had a 3.60 ERA at AA. That’s not nothing. 

[AngelStew43]

Agree with Fletcher.  This was a pure baseball move, nothing more.  

We dealt from an area of strength, our depth in the middle infield.

In return, we got a decent AA pitcher, and found a taker on Cozart, 

who, as it turns out, at best would have been our 26th man.  You don't pay 13 million dollars to your 26th man.

[totdprods]

There was also a lot of value in simply getting Cozart off the 26/40 man rosters. Frees up a spot on each and his subtraction means he doesn’t take playing time away from better players. 

[Angel Oracle]

24 minutes ago, Second Base said:

We're still talking about Will Wilson, the one piss poor pick that Eppler has made? 

Yep, let this sink in.    .762 OPS in an extreme hitting Pioneer League as a 20/21 year-old 

[Inside Pitch]

34 minutes ago, failos said:

Agreed. Wilson was the 7th best prospect on the team. And he’s a catcher. This trade is a waste without some big signing (not including Rendon).

Wilson is NOT a catcher...

[Lou]

36 minutes ago, failos said:

Agreed. Wilson was the 7th best prospect on the team. And he’s a catcher. This trade is a waste without some big signing (not including Rendon).

you're bagging on Eppler for trading a guy you obviously don't know anything about? 

[eaterfan]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Wilson is NOT a catcher...

You don't know that.

[UndertheHalo]

33 minutes ago, totdprods said:

There was also a lot of value in simply getting Cozart off the 26/40 man rosters. Frees up a spot on each and his subtraction means he doesn’t take playing time away from better players. 

Yes, the roster space is an important benefit of being rid of Cozart.  I just think the topic is worth discussing.  It’s a way to deal with this kind of thing.  I’m just not sure it’s a good thing.  I’m not really that concerned about Wilson, it’s the principle of it.  Also, I think some people here are going way out of their way to dismiss Will Wilson.  Anyway, it’s happened once with the Angels that I can recall.  I am hopeful we don’t seen it again any time soon.  I trust that we won’t. 

Edited December 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[UndertheHalo]

Also, if Wilson manages to get to his arbitration years as a major leaguer.  He’ll have absolutely been worth more the 13 or 12 million.  That is not a far fetched outcome.  

Edited December 17, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Inside Pitch]

I think its a one and done thing...  

Like you and others have hinted at, the Cozart situation had pretty much run it's course and keeping him around eating up a roster spot when they have two/three guys who provide greater benefit and are looking to be a part of the future served no purpose.

imagine sending someone down in order to keep Cozart up....  I think that would have chapped me even more than moving Wilson.

[eaterfan]

A roster spot has value, clearing a roster spot has none. If the Angels wanted the roster spot they could have just cut him and kept Wilson. They wanted the money and the PBTL. 

I agree that it's probably a one time thing. 

I definitely think that Wilson could provide the 1-3 WAR in pre-arb that will make the trade a wash, I don't think it will be the type of trade where the team is kicking itself about losing him in 7 years. I also don't think it's sour grapes. Many of the draftniks on the board thought this was not a great pick at the time.

[floplag]

No, we did that to make room for other deals. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

We really don't know if Will Wilson was the one bad first round pick Eppler has made in his four drafts. He may be an everyday 2B in the league. Time and progression will tell.

I think the worst first round pick Eppler made is Matt Thaiss. He chose Thaiss with the 16th pick in the 2016 draft. For a comparison, the Dodgers drafted Gavin Lux and Will Smith in the first round after Eppler chose Matt Thaiss.

I think drafting Matt Thaiss in the first round is the equivalent of drafting Robb Quinlan in the first round.

I know a lot of you guys, and I'm not including @Second Base, want to give Eppler a pass on the Thaiss 2016 #16 pick but in retrospect it appears to be a really bad choice.

Because of his 150 at bats we now know what Thaiss will be.  Thaiss had an OBP 80 points higher than his batting average and hit a home run every 18 or so at bats.  He also played an average 3rd base while learning the position this year.  If you are comparing him to Lux and Smith then yea, he falls short, but we have no idea if he was a bad first round pick.  Hell he made it to the majors about as quick as anyone from that draft class.  And I agree the Dodgers drafted two guys that everyone in baseball had a chance to draft and didn’t.  

[failos]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Wilson is NOT a catcher...

That’s great news. Problem solved

[failos]

58 minutes ago, Lou said:

you're bagging on Eppler for trading a guy you obviously don't know anything about? 

I wasn’t criticizing Eppler here.

[Angel Oracle]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Because of his 150 at bats we now know what Thaiss will be.  Thaiss had an OBP 80 points higher than his batting average and hit a home run every 18 or so at bats.  He also played an average 3rd base while learning the position this year.  If you are comparing him to Lux and Smith then yea, he falls short, but we have no idea if he was a bad first round pick.  Hell he made it to the majors about as quick as anyone from that draft class.  And I agree the Dodgers drafted two guys that everyone in baseball had a chance to draft and didn’t.  

And Thaiss apparently made great strides defensively in the fall, per an earlier report.     Even though Rendon now has 3B to himself for the next seven seasons, that improvement might carry over to another position, like 1B?    That would give him some versatility. 

[Angels Never Die]

It is annoying to lose a first round pick so soon, it feels like it was wasted at some point.

[Dick B Back]

@Lou just needs to find this thread in 5 years and then we’ll all know whether or not this thing made sense.

[eligrba4ever]

Sending Will Wilson away was the price paid to unload Zack's pet donkey.

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

The more I think about them dumping Wilson for essentially 13 million dollars the more I’m kind of bothered about it.  Yes, I know Wilson wasn’t a super star in the making (most likely) but he is a solid 50 grade prospect and I don’t know.  Dumping him for 13 million bucks seems whack.  The Angels aren’t loaded.  Couldn’t they have just eaten it for 1 year ? Using prospects as a means of clearing money seems like a shitty thing.  I appreciate that we got Rendon.  Thrilled about it.  But did they really need to...I mean let’s face it.  Just throw away Wilson ?

It's worth it if we get the pitching we need.  It's not worth it if we do not spend the 13 million on something of greater value.  Right now we don't have sh@t to show for the trade

 

11 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

We didn't trade Wilson for Rendon. We could have afforded him before Wilson. The next FA we sign will likely be in thanks to the Wilson trade. Plus, you can never be sure about prospects. When you have an overload of infield talent and the chance to capitalize on a situation to free up salary room to potentially take the Angels in a completely different (and better) direction, then you take it. Eppler clearly doesn't waste prospects in a trade. The Indians asked for Marsh, Sandoval and Deveaux for Kluber and Eppler is smart not to bite just because we need an ace. Eppler has my 100% trust in the trades he makes. 

Do we have confirmation that's what cleveland asked for?

[Angelsjunky]

1 minute ago, stormngt said:

Do we have confirmation that's what cleveland asked for?

We have confirmation that they asked for Marsh, who alone is probably too much, at least considering how questionable Kluber is. 

[Angelsjunky]

I agree with the OP to a point, but have no problem with it, mainly for reasons already stated: that the Angels aren't done, so we can't judge Eppler's decisions until we see the end result (Opening Day roster). But even if it ends up simply being a way to get rid of Cozart, it isn't the worst thing in the world. Wilson is a solid prospect, but the Angels have the infield taken care of for years to come, with Simmons, La Stella, Fletcher, Rengifo, Jones, and not to mention Maitan, Paris, Vera, etc. 

[Chuck]

11 hours ago, arch stanton said:

To me it doesn't make sense to nitpick every move made until we see the final product. I just can't find the energy to fret this

/Thread

[krAbs]

A couple thoughts:
1. If all we get is Rendon, then you're right. If we make real moves for pitching this off season, then it kinda seems like a good move. Basically the question is: will the money be used or not?

2. I've been watching more soccer, and this kinda thing is actually extremely normal in the soccer world (read: the sports world outside of the US). Its super unusual to trade players - typically a team will sell players to a team (often in a different league), and that other team will re-negotiate a contract with that player and pay the original team. Then, your team can use that money however they want - maybe send it to several different teams for several different players, maybe package it along with some money from the war chest to get a big player, maybe just add it to the team's war chest. This was odd to me, until someone pointed out that this is literally just how modern economies work - we don't go to the grocery store with some chickens and try to trade it for food. We sell our time for money, and then use that money for goods. This doesn't really happen as much in the MLB (or most American sports) because of players unions, and the fact that there is REALLY just the one league we are dealing with - but, there isn't any reason why this is totally a crazy idea. Its...literally just capitalism.

[T.G.]

5 minutes ago, RBM said:

I didn't see that. Do we have confirmation?

Did we confirm Cleveland was  asking for Marsh was the deal breaker?

They traded Kluber for an elite MLB closer and a young MLB CF'er.

I don't think they were looking for a collection of prospects making their debuts from 2021 to 2023l