Does anyone care that this team hasn't won a game yet?

[nate]

Is stormn really saying that Butcher helped Santana?  A guy that went from a 3 ERA to a 5 ERA.  Laughable.

[Wallerrrr]

are the 6 previous pages just andgelduck bashing the angels? too lazy to check...

 

still not worried we havent won yet

[James]

A bad farm system, got to expect to lose games early in spring.

[nate]

are the 6 previous pages just andgelduck bashing the angels? too lazy to check...

 

still not worried we havent won yet

 

You missed a great opportunity in your Eric Byrnes interview to ask him if the season was over already.  Fail.

[angelduck]

Storm, there is this function called "Multiquote". use it so that way you can defend Scioscia blindly in one post instead of 7

[angelduck]

I know you like to think you are an expert, but Save/save opportunity ratio is the most important stat for a closer.

 

OMG. I didn't see this one until now. Do yourself a favor and delete this. You must be related to Tony Reagins.

[Blarg]

Is stormn really saying that Butcher helped Santana?  A guy that went from a 3 ERA to a 5 ERA.  Laughable.

Santana had a 5.03 ERA in 2009 then dropped it to 3.92 in 2010 then to a career low of 3.38 with a no hitter in 2011, with that same guy Butcher as the pitching coach.

[nate]

Santana had a 5.03 ERA in 2009 then dropped it to 3.92 in 2010 then to a career low of 3.38 with a no hitter in 2011, with that same guy Butcher as the pitching coach.

And then back to 5.  So Butcher was not likely the one helping him.

 

Or Butcher was not able to sustain acceptable job performance?

[katie]

I am as worried about the Angel having not won a game as I am that the Royals haven't lost one.

It's Spring Training. Last I checked, winning the Cactus League is not an automatic to the World Series.

Who has Brandon Wood and who doesn't... Hmmmmm

[katie]

No..... Angels Baseball in February means nothing.  But they better win tomorrow!

This made me lol

[fan_since79]

No..... Angels Baseball in February means nothing.  But they better win tomorrow!

I'm waiting for September, when the games really matter!

[AZMike]

I'm waiting for September, when the games really matter!

 

A win in September is far more valuable / "clutch" than a win in April, that's for sure 

[ELEVEN]

89 wins =/= succeed?  Eek.  Try being a fan of 20 other teams...

Like Troll Daddy

[Blarg]

And then back to 5.  So Butcher was not likely the one helping him.

 

Or Butcher was not able to sustain acceptable job performance?

Or Sanatana is a fricking headcase but to take one year and say , see, see, see, is on a par with Angelducks one game analysis of a players career. Santana was an unstable headcase when Black was the pitching coach. I don't think it is a coaching issue.

[nate]

Or Sanatana is a fricking headcase but to take one year and say , see, see, see, is on a par with Angelducks one game analysis of a players career. Santana was an unstable headcase when Black was the pitching coach. I don't think it is a coaching issue.

 

So the rest of the pitchers that struggled then?  Butcher sucks, under him pitchers haven't throw strikes, haven't learned new pitchers, and have been wildly inconsistent outside of Weaver.

 

I hate saying the same thing as AD but to me, on a high performing organization, three years of failure should have lead to a complete overhaul of coaching.  I think if Scioscia didn't have a 10 year contract he would have been gone.

 

Now Butcher is saddled with a good bullpen and a very questionable rotation.  I don't know how anyone has any high expectations.  He has not ever shown the ability to improve pitching.

[Blarg]

The rest of the pitchers? Do you mean Wilson with bone chips in his elbow? Or Haren that saw his fastball dip to Jamie Moyer speed? Yeah, Butcher is completely to blame for that.

How about you give me a realistic evaluation of last years bulpen and the quality of arms that Butcher had to work with?

Context, Nate. You got spoiled in the Shields/Percival/Rodriguez years. We have not had any arms of that quality in the pen since.

[nate]

Right, it is always the players, Blarg.  The coaching doesn't take any responsibility?

 

The bullpen has been shit for years.  Why did nobody change Walden's wild delivery to get him more under control?  Why haven't any of your pitchers learned new pitches?

 

Why is it that every time we bring in a reliever they throw ball one instead of strike one?  Does Butcher not explain to them that when they come in players are going to take a pitch or two to get a read on their delivery?

[GotWood4Dipoto]

Spring means nothing, last spring they were on fire and look at how that turned out.

[Blarg]

Right, it is always the players, Blarg.  The coaching doesn't take any responsibility?

 

The bullpen has been shit for years.  Why did nobody change Walden's wild delivery to get him more under control?  Why haven't any of your pitchers learned new pitches?

 

Why is it that every time we bring in a reliever they throw ball one instead of strike one?  Does Butcher not explain to them that when they come in players are going to take a pitch or two to get a read on their delivery?

So you are not willing to give an honest evaluation of the bullpen Butcher was left to coach last season?

[Brandon]

I didn't think this thread would really take off.

 

When you have AA and walk-on's mixed with some starters while throwing out minor leaguers on the mound, no I'm not worried. 

[nate]

Last four seasons, Blarg.  They have been shit the whole time.

 

I don't care if the players aren't the best.  You don't just give him his job because you are assuming it was all the players.  Management should always be held accountable.  He hasn't been.

 

He also has had a couple pitchers come in with good track records and then struggle.  He has also seen pitchers leave and immediately work with a new pitching coach and become much better.

[steveuk]

No, but yes, but....no

[Inside Pitch]

Last four seasons, Blarg.  They have been shit the whole time.

 

I don't care if the players aren't the best.  You don't just give him his job because you are assuming it was all the players.  Management should always be held accountable.  He hasn't been.

 

He also has had a couple pitchers come in with good track records and then struggle.  He has also seen pitchers leave and immediately work with a new pitching coach and become much better.

 

 

I'm not taking a side on the Butcher debate -- but who has come in with a good track record and then struggled?  Kazmir was damaged goods and advertised as such.  Piniero was up and down everywhere he's ever been, including STL.  Rodney was exactly the same pitcher he had been for his entire career in Anaheim.  I can't really think of any notable additions to the rotation other than Haren and we can likely blame his poor season on injury.  Outside of Rodney, I can't really recall many guys that left and got considerably better.   Darren O'Day maybe?  

[stormngt]

How the hell did this thing go 8 pages!  It is spring training folks!  

[Richard]

I would say only about 2 of the 8 pages are on topic.