Explain Bumgarner’s value

[Pancake Bear]

 Madison Bumgarner wants 5 years and over 100 million. 

 I think he’s worse than the four guys who are currently locks for our rotation, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise. 

If you think Bumgarner is worth that money and is a genuine impact player, explain why his 5 ERA away from SF last year doesn’t matter. Explain why his diminishes velocity isn’t an issue. And please do so without reaching back to the playoffs five years ago. 

Because to me, this is just another Weaver or King Felix who is toast. 

Defend your guy. 

[Stradling]

He’s available.

[krAbs]

He was really good in that one world series. And he has a cute butt.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Him and Ohtani can take BP together

[Tyler]

Like Kershaw, he doesn't have enough left in the tank. Time to get active on trade market after signing Rendon. Boyd and Ray.

[Hubs]

This is ridiculous. Is Bumgarner Cole? No. Is he better than Wheeler? Would I rather have Bumgarner, Darvish, Contreras and Rendon? Yes. 

[Pancake Bear]

12 minutes ago, Hubs said:

This is ridiculous. Is Bumgarner Cole? No. Is he better than Wheeler? Would I rather have Bumgarner, Darvish, Contreras and Rendon? Yes. 

You ignored the first post. Reading comprehension is your friend.

[popo85]

Apparently per Bill Shaikin the Dodgers are now after Cumgarner.

[Hufflepuff]

54 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

 Madison Bumgarner wants 5 years and over 100 million. 

 I think he’s worse than the four guys who are currently locks for our rotation, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise. 

If you think Bumgarner is worth that money and is a genuine impact player, explain why his 5 ERA away from SF last year doesn’t matter. Explain why his diminishes velocity isn’t an issue. And please do so without reaching back to the playoffs five years ago. 

Because to me, this is just another Weaver or King Felix who is toast. 

Defend your guy. 

Velocity is so important in today’s game. Advanced stats make a strong case of velo and a pitchers effectiveness. I’d stay away from mad bum as well 

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, Hufflepuff said:

Velocity is so important in today’s game. Advanced stats make a strong case of velo and a pitchers effectiveness. I’d stay away from mad bum as well 

I notice nobody saying sign Bumgarner in other threads actually wants to defend why he’s a good signing. Hilarious. 

[Hubs]

10 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

You ignored the first post. Reading comprehension is your friend.

I don’t think you should be calling anyone out with an insult.  You’re just upset Cole chose the Yankees and want to vent.

I like him, and I’m not worried about his peripherals. His Velocity is within 1.3 mph of his high and has always been around the same. It is not diminishing.

You said he’s worse than the four locks for the Angels rotation so you’ve drunk the analytic Kool Aid.

None of the Angels starters pitched 100 innings last year and had an ERA under 4. MadBum did. So maybe I just have a different opinion and that’s fine. 

No need for personal insults.

[Dick B Back]

He knows how to ride dirt bikes.

[Jason]

207 ip in 2019. That actually seems like more than our starters had combined 

[zenmaster]

3.90 ERA and >200 IP last year. Leagues better than anything we had last year. 

[Jason]

10 hours ago, popo85 said:

Apparently per Bill Shaikin the Dodgers are now after Cumgarner.

If TDawg and AO had a baby this is a name it would come up with 

[Hufflepuff]

I’ll play devils advocate:

-Peak velo was 92.1 and last year he sat at 91.4. If he can sustain that, he should be solid.

-swinging strike % also very solid, less than 2% off his peak years. 
 

-He really suffered from a high hard hit % which may be attributed to the new ball. 
 

His rate of regression will determine if he’s a good or bad signing. 

[hangin n wangin]

He's lost velocity and he's on his decline. He's still a solid pitcher but now it seems as if he's a high 3 ERA/FIP guy, possibly even worse. The good thing about him is he doesn't rely on velocity and is an actual pitcher, rather than a thrower. He's also been very durable, aside from missing some time from his accident or whatever.

So basically, we would be paying 100 million for his bad years. He would help us, but his contract would also probably not be worth it and it's not taking us to the next level.

Angels are in a pickle and my guess is it's going to turn out ugly and underwhelming. At least we have Trout.

[AngelsFaninGA]

He's on the decline. He's also better than anyone else we have so I say sign him

[stevestevens]

He would be a better late innings pinch hitter than what we got.... Maybe that's why we let cowart go. 

[T.G.]

Pass.

[nando714]

Bumgarner is a name People know and he’ll make the avg fan who knows his name excited 

[fan_since79]

1 hour ago, hangin n wangin said:

He's lost velocity and he's on his decline. He's still a solid pitcher but now it seems as if he's a high 3 ERA/FIP guy, possibly even worse. The good thing about him is he doesn't rely on velocity and is an actual pitcher, rather than a thrower. He's also been very durable, aside from missing some time from his accident or whatever.

So basically, we would be paying 100 million for his bad years. He would help us, but his contract would also probably not be worth it and it's not taking us to the next level.

Angels are in a pickle and my guess is it's going to turn out ugly and underwhelming. At least we have Trout.

Three or four more MVP seasons from the Great One will almost compensate for missing the playoffs in the next decade.

Is there no end in sight to this mediocrity of a team?

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Three or four more MVP seasons from the Great One will almost compensate for missing the playoffs in the next decade.

Is there no end in sight to this mediocrity of a team?

Ehhh, I've accepted the Angels just aren't that good of a franchise. Have known it for some time now, even though since I have been alive the franchise has had pretty decent success. So I have no clue when we will be good again. I don't see it this upcoming year, but baseball is weird and weird things happen. Teams you don't expect to be good surprise people. So i guess that's what all of us angel fans are banking on....again.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

I don’t think you should be calling anyone out with an insult.  You’re just upset Cole chose the Yankees and want to vent.

I like him, and I’m not worried about his peripherals. His Velocity is within 1.3 mph of his high and has always been around the same. It is not diminishing.

You said he’s worse than the four locks for the Angels rotation so you’ve drunk the analytic Kool Aid.

None of the Angels starters pitched 100 innings last year and had an ERA under 4. MadBum did. So maybe I just have a different opinion and that’s fine. 

No need for personal insults.

The important point is that his road ERA was 5.29 in 2019.    He may well be starting his decline.   Do you really want to give someone starting their decline and registering a 5.29 road ERA, 5 years/$100 million?

He is an ultimate competitor.    I just don't trust that he can keep his ERA under 4.50.    Angel Stadium is significantly easier to hit in, than AT&T Park.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[hangin n wangin]

2 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The important point is that his road ERA was 5.29 in 2019.    He may well be starting his decline.   Do you really want to give someone starting their decline and registering a 5.29 road ERA, 5 years/$100 million?

Not that I disagree with what you're saying, because 100 million is a lot for Bummy. But the road ERA could be a one year outlier. I think he's a decent enough pitcher to improve on that, but I don't have any certainty he will. And I'm not really down for us to pay 100 million to find out.