Gerrit Cole signs with the Yankees (9 years, $324 million)

[CanadianHalo]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

Well, crap. Frustrating that this didn’t work in our favor. Would be interested to know what our final offer was and what swayed him to choose NY. 

Alright, Eppler, let’s see what kind of trade for an ace you can pull out of your hat without giving up Adell or Marsh.

Define “ace”
 

You consider David Price an ace?

[Roth]

1 minute ago, Kendo36 said:

Everyone is overlooking the massive injury risk rendon brings. Angels are fucked. Now have to overpay old injury risk filled players. 

What?  Hes played 145 games 3 out of the last 4 years.  The one year was 136.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

Well, crap. Frustrating that this didn’t work in our favor. Would be interested to know what our final offer was and what swayed him to choose NY. 

Alright, Eppler, let’s see what kind of trade for an ace you can pull out of your hat without giving up Adell or Marsh.

From all the reports it was for less than 300 million. 

[Second Base]

9 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Why?  We lose out on one 6 win player and sign another.  

Despite the attempt at standardization, not all wins are created equal, at least not in roster makeup. In WAR they are, but the translation isn't perfect. 

It's an uneven distribution. Or non-linear.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Second Base

[eligrba4ever]

Well, Santa dropped a plain old lump of coal in the Angels' stocking. But I can't say this was a surprise.

Oh, well. Moving on to to the second tier and the basement bargains. I hear Matt Harvey is still available. (Just kidding, painfully.) 

MadBum may worth a roll of the overpriced dice.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

14 minutes ago, Hufflepuff said:

High risk signings can set you back, make you less flexible. I think Eppler has done a good job building more depth and longevity. It’s not sustainable for the Angels to make huge signings. We have a ton of holes. Improving one particular aspect really well still leaves the other gaps.

Of course high risk signings come with risk, but that’s why they are called high risk... Eppler has done a great job of building a solid foundation for this franchise but without a few bold moves this team won’t go anywhere.

[Stradling]

Just now, RBM said:

That's not how it works.

Ok, I am incredibly pissed we missed out on Cole.  But honestly, who has a better chance of living up to their contract 7-8 years of Rendon or 9 years of Cole?  Rendon in the line up with Trout and Ohtani.  A left side of the infield with him and Simmons, with Fletcher at 2nd.  Pretty good defense.  I am not saying we will win more games with Rendon as we would Cole, but at the same time if a premiere player in his prime is available, why not make a move to get him?

[ScottT]

The Twins won 23 more games in 2019 than they did in 2018.  They didn't sign a Gerrit Cole or an Anthony Rendon.  Or anything close. 

[Tank]

1 minute ago, CanadianHalo said:

Define “ace”
 

You consider David Price an ace?

Absolutely not. I hope he’s not on their radar. 

Eppler said he felt he could get a #1 without giving up Adell. I’m sure by now you know what an ace is and don’t need it defined.

[Roth]

Just now, ScottT said:

The Twins won 23 more games in 2019 than they did in 2018.  They didn't sign a Gerrit Cole or an Anthony Rendon.  Or anything close. 

They also got crushed by the Yankees without Cole. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

Despite the attempt at standardization, not all wins are created equal, at least not in roster makeup. In WAR they are, but the translation isn't perfect. 

Just as an example, Cole replaced last year's ace who was worth -2 wins, and thus it's really 8 wins they may have added (just an example, not sure who it WAR leader was aming pitchers).

And Rendon replaced a 2 won okayed at 3B, effectively making him work half what Gerrit Cole was worth. 

It's an uneven distribution. 

I know.  However he is in his prime and he is a helluva player that would create depth in a line up that can use another stud behind Trout.

[AngelsLakersFan]

8 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The problem with thinking like this is the market for starting pitching was set yesterday when Strasburg got the largest deal ever, then today that was beat by $80 fucking million.  So we either gave out the largest deal ever for a pitcher yesterday when I am pretty sure we all thought it was an overpay or do it today when we ONLY offered $50 million above the largest contract ever for a pitcher.

Where were we on Grandal? Where were we on Wheeler? This is exactly what I said a couple weeks back when we missed out on Grandal... if you are looking for value in the FA market you will sign nobody. The last time we had money to spend and couldn’t find a deal we ended up blowing our wad on Vernon Wells.

[Stradling]

Just now, AngelsLakersFan said:

Where were we on Grandal? Where were we on Wheeler? This is exactly what I said a couple weeks back when we missed out on Grandal... if you are looking for value in the FA market you will sign nobody. The last time we had money to spend and couldn’t find a deal we ended up blowing our wad on Vernon Wells.

Never said I was looking for value.  Ok so Vernon Wells was 3 GMs ago.  

[kevinb]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, I am incredibly pissed we missed out on Cole.  But honestly, who has a better chance of living up to their contract 7-8 years of Rendon or 9 years of Cole?  Rendon in the line up with Trout and Ohtani.  A left side of the infield with him and Simmons, with Fletcher at 2nd.  Pretty good defense.  I am not saying we will win more games with Rendon as we would Cole, but at the same time if a premiere player in his prime is available, why not make a move to get him?

But to sign Rendon you have to beat out the Dodgers and the Rangers. 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Where were we on Grandal? Where were we on Wheeler? This is exactly what I said a couple weeks back when we missed out on Grandal... if you are looking for value in the FA market you will sign nobody. The last time we had money to spend and couldn’t find a deal we ended up blowing our wad on Vernon Wells.

Wheeler was never going to play on the west coast

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

But to sign Rendon you have to beat out the Dodgers and the Rangers. 

Ok.

[fan_since79]

8 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Well, Santa dropped a plain old lump of coal in the Angels' stocking. But I can't say this was a surprise.

Oh, well. Moving on to to the second tier and the basement bargains. I hear Matt Harvey is still available. (Just kidding, painfully.) 

MadBum may worth a roll of the overpriced dice.

 

$100 mill for five years seems reasonable. Bumgarner...great pitcher who's a beast on the mound, with a will to win. I think you get three really good years out of him. Not Cole, but not bad, and a helluva lot cheaper.

[Docwaukee]

I thought we needed Cole to compete at an elite level for the next five years and I'm very disappointed we didn't get him despite that rather egregious contract.  Having an ace was like him was our best chance.  

It's not just losing out on him that bothers me, it what I fear is coming next with what is left.   The next series of potential moves could actually be far more damaging to this team and franchise than the Cole contract.  Money is easier to work around when said player is actually performing at an elite level.  

The pivot to Bumgarner or Ryu or even both or perhaps far worse, trading Marsh and others for someone like Boyd will seal our fate for the foreseeable future.  

Eppler has already made some questionable moves this off season.  Let's hope he doesn't compound that with a couple moves that are truly stupid.  

[Bronson]

Its like no one thinks we can beat out teams for players now.

[bloodbrother]

Just now, Kevinb said:

But to sign Rendon you have to beat out the Dodgers and the Rangers. 

Rangers don't really concern me. They don't have any winning recently to fall back on with recruiting FA talent. They are pretty much in the same boat as the Angels. Dodgers have like 6 straight division titles, 2 WS appearances, as well as one of the better rosters as a selling point

[CanadianHalo]

Just now, Tank said:

Absolutely not. I hope he’s not on their radar. 

Eppler said he felt he could get a #1 without giving up Adell. I’m sure by now you know what an ace is and don’t need it defined.

But we both know who is available in FA and we know the names being floated around in trades there simply aren’t any true aces out there.

Unless you think Kluber bounces back?

 

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, ScottT said:

The Twins won 23 more games in 2019 than they did in 2018.  They didn't sign a Gerrit Cole or an Anthony Rendon.  Or anything close. 

No they just received a gigantic leap forward from Berrios, Odorizzi and Pineda and had breakout stars on offense, had Miguel Sano finally make good on all that stupid potential, and had the Indians pitching staff fall apart and no other competition in the division.

So now the Angels just need to convince the A's to suck, infect the Astros rotation with the Ebola virus and inject every swinging dick on the team with enough anabolic steroids to impregnate a lion and we'll be good to go.

Shit.... That felt good. 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Ok.

I just don't see us outbidding the Dodgers for him. Dodgers lost out on Cole as well. 

[mulwin444]

So, some perspective, not trying to be a c*nt, as TDawg so eloquently put it...

- Winning is the most important thing to Cole, he says, and the Yankees are closer.  Angels don't sign him with 9/$324 mil.

Do you offer him 10/$360 mil?

- Strasburg was offered 7 years by the team he just won a world series with that also has Scherzer and Corbin.

Do you offer him 8 years/$280 mil to a 32 year old pitcher?

- Wheeler turned down a higher offer to stay on the East Coast and sign at $22 mil?

Do you offer him 6/$138 mil?  Maybe 7 years?

All I have heard here since about 2015 is what a albatross Pujols contract was and what morons they were for signing it.  How could Arte/Dipoto not see the .900 OPS in 2011 and not know he was declining?  And this is an everyday player.  BoSux have a shit load of money committed to Sale and Price and are not sure either can make it through a full season but we are ready in this forum to commit to 9 years to a 29 year pitcher?

[beatlesrule]

8 minutes ago, Tank said:

Well, crap. Frustrating that this didn’t work in our favor. Would be interested to know what our final offer was and what swayed him to choose NY. 

Alright, Eppler, let’s see what kind of trade for an ace you can pull out of your hat without giving up Adell or Marsh.

Just south of 300 million. He was swayed by over 20 million more and going to a franchise much closer to winning a WS than the Angels. Very similar with what happened with Teixeria.