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LAT: How Arte Moreno might commit to $1 billion for the year, hoping for Cole in his stocking


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Arte is a billionaire. The team’s value has gone up big time since he purchased the team. He can sell it for far more than he spent. Whether he’s overspending what the team takes in or not, if he’s se

it's a risky proposition to spend your way out a problem that was created by inappropriate spending but I agree.  Although I will say that I have been hoping he'd do that for awhile now and I am glad

Rendon would be less than 250, fwiw. Also, there’s no we. It’s Arte’s money. I’m just saying he needs to figure out what his priorities are and quit jerking Trout and the fans around while saying one

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Arte is a billionaire. The team’s value has gone up big time since he purchased the team. He can sell it for far more than he spent. Whether he’s overspending what the team takes in or not, if he’s serious about winning and not wasting Trout’s career, he needs to step up  and be willing to pass the luxury tax. This is a key window. If Arte waits, the Trout window will be gone. Spend less and make more later. 

Go big or quit talking about trying to win. He went out and got Maddon. He extended Trout. All of that is pointless if you’re going to be principled and cautious financially now. Don’t leave the job half done. Don’t be outbid on Cole. The Yankees don’t have our desperation. If you have to outspend them by 20m, do it. Then go and sign Rendon or Strasburg. It’s as simple as that. This is Arte’s shot, he needs to not blow it. It’s about legacy - which he supposedly used to care about. 

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28 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Arte is a billionaire. The team’s value has gone up big time since he purchased the team. He can sell it for far more than he spent. Whether he’s overspending what the team takes in or not, if he’s serious about winning and not wasting Trout’s career, he needs to step up  and be willing to pass the luxury tax. This is a key window. If Arte waits, the Trout window will be gone. Spend less and make more later. 

Go big or quit talking about trying to win. He went out and got Maddon. He extended Trout. All of that is pointless if you’re going to be principled and cautious financially now. Don’t leave the job half done. Don’t be outbid on Cole. The Yankees don’t have our desperation. If you have to outspend them by 20m, do it. Then go and sign Rendon or Strasburg. It’s as simple as that. This is Arte’s shot, he needs to not blow it. It’s about legacy - which he supposedly used to care about. 

This is why I think Arte should go all-in on Cole and Rendon. Trade for one more quality starter and get a catcher and hit the pedal to the metal.

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11 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Arte is a billionaire. The team’s value has gone up big time since he purchased the team. He can sell it for far more than he spent. Whether he’s overspending what the team takes in or not, if he’s serious about winning and not wasting Trout’s career, he needs to step up  and be willing to pass the luxury tax. This is a key window. If Arte waits, the Trout window will be gone. Spend less and make more later. 

Go big or quit talking about trying to win. He went out and got Maddon. He extended Trout. All of that is pointless if you’re going to be principled and cautious financially now. Don’t leave the job half done. Don’t be outbid on Cole. The Yankees don’t have our desperation. If you have to outspend them by 20m, do it. Then go and sign Rendon or Strasburg. It’s as simple as that. This is Arte’s shot, he needs to not blow it. It’s about legacy - which he supposedly used to care about. 

it's a risky proposition to spend your way out a problem that was created by inappropriate spending but I agree.  Although I will say that I have been hoping he'd do that for awhile now and I am glad he's shown some restraint in that regard because the guys available to do that on were absolute landmines.  

But now it's different.  Yet why should Arte believe that?  Honestly, I have no idea other than to say that it just feels different.  This class of free agents is very very good.  You don't get many opportunities like the players available this year.  

So yeah. Go for it right now.  

BUT.  there is always a but.  But don't give up your farm system.  You don't have to.  There's a chance to make the team a lot better without doing so.  An opportunity that doesn't always exist.  

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5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's a risky proposition to spend your way out a problem that was created by inappropriate spending but I agree.  Although I will say that I have been hoping he'd do that for awhile now and I am glad he's shown some restraint in that regard because the guys available to do that on were absolute landmines.  

But now it's different.  Yet why should Arte believe that?  Honestly, I have no idea other than to say that it just feels different.  This class of free agents is very very good.  You don't get many opportunities like the players available this year.  

So yeah. Go for it right now.  

BUT.  there is always a but.  But don't give up your farm system.  You don't have to.  There's a chance to make the team a lot better without doing so.  An opportunity that doesn't always exist.  

It's a special opportunity, to be able to completely alter the future of this team and not have to give up any prospects. You have to take advantage.

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Right now, I think Arte needs to ask himself, did he purchase a baseball team as a money making venture, or because he wanted to win? Obviously the best will be able to do both. But there's a lot you can make money with. You buy a baseball team because you want to win, that's it.

So right now, Arte can either make money, or he can win. There's just no middle ground. You can't just spend a little. That's just not where this roster is at right now. Though I would argue that if Arte spends big this off-season, he's going to win big for years to come, which makes money in and of itself.

Billy has built the farm system you need and will continue to do so. But now Arte needs to go out and make sure the Angels come away with two really good starting pitchers. Cole and Strasburg, Cole and Ryu, Strasburg and Ryu, whatever. But until this farm starts producing top of the rotation or at least middle of the rotation talent, you'll just have to spend money to get that.

But that's on Eppler to make a more concerted effort early in the draft to target upside pitching, and not wait until the 3rd round. The Angels were lucky to get Hernandez and Kochanowicz the last couple years, just like they were lucky Canning slipped to the second. But they need to use that #10 pick in next draft on a collegiate starter with upside, if one still exists on the board at that point. Someone that can go straight to AA in 2021, and be ready to impact the rotation in 2022, right around the same time Rodriguez and Soriano will be ready. 

And if he's that worried about payroll, there's 30 million coming off the books every year for the next three years. Spend now, so you can win in the short run, and let the farm make it so that you win AND make money in the long run.

Edited by Second Base
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30 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's a risky proposition to spend your way out a problem that was created by inappropriate spending but I agree.  Although I will say that I have been hoping he'd do that for awhile now and I am glad he's shown some restraint in that regard because the guys available to do that on were absolute landmines.  

But now it's different.  Yet why should Arte believe that?  Honestly, I have no idea other than to say that it just feels different.  This class of free agents is very very good.  You don't get many opportunities like the players available this year.  

So yeah. Go for it right now.  

BUT.  there is always a but.  But don't give up your farm system.  You don't have to.  There's a chance to make the team a lot better without doing so.  An opportunity that doesn't always exist.  

Agree on trading.

If you go get Cole *and* Rendon, you maybe have moveable capital to trade. If not, I don’t really want to move any of our top prospects and don’t think we’d get enough back for any of them to make it worthwhile. Rendon makes sense to me because he wants a higher aav and lower years. There’s less risk there. 

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13 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Right now, I think Arte needs to ask himself, did he purchase a baseball team as a money making venture, or because he wanted to win? Obviously the best will be able to do both. But there's a lot you can make money with. You buy a baseball team because you want to win, that's it.

So right now, Arte can either make money, or he can win. There's just no middle ground. You can't just spend a little. That's just not where this roster is at right now. Though I would argue that if Arte spends big this off-season, he's going to win big for years to come, which makes money in and of itself.

Billy has built the farm system you need and will continue to do so. But now Arte needs to go out and make sure the Angels come away with two really good starting pitchers. Cole and Strasburg, Cole and Ryu, Strasburg and Ryu, whatever. But until this farm starts producing top of the rotation or at least middle of the rotation talent, you'll just have to spend money to get that.

But that's on Eppler to make a more concerted effort early in the draft to target upside pitching, and not wait until the 3rd round. The Angels were lucky to get Hernandez and Kochanowicz the last couple years, just like they were lucky Canning slipped to the second. But they need to use that #10 pick in next draft on a collegiate starter with upside, if one still exists on the board at that point. Someone that can go straight to AA in 2021, and be ready to impact the rotation in 2022, right around the same time Rodriguez and Soriano will be ready. 

And if he's that worried about payroll, there's 30 million coming off the books every year for the next three years. Spend now, so you can win in the short run, and let the farm make it so that you win AND make money in the long run.

This is it for me. Obviously Arte spends a lot of money on the team. I don’t begrudge him wanting to make money. It’s his, he can do whatever he wants with it. What does bug me is when he talks about the importance or winning and legacy and isn’t willing to go all in. He cheaps out or spends on the wrong guy (Wells, Hamilton, etc). 

The team has a huge chance to make up for the last 7 years this offseason. It requires Arte to go bigger than he’s ever gone. It’s a big ask. I get that. And if Arte cares more about his bottom line than those other things, so be it. But this is his chance. This is the time to make a move. It’ll take a couple of years of big money if he has the sand for that, but he can afford it, and if he really means what he says in public and doesn’t just care about putting a .500 team out there, he needs to go big. Otherwise, don’t fire Ausmus and go get Maddon. Don’t re-sign Trout and tell him we’re committed to winning. It’s pointless if all we care about is 85 wins. 

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1 minute ago, Lou said:

we are not signing 2 more players to contracts worth a quarter of a billion dollars.

Rendon would be less than 250, fwiw. Also, there’s no we. It’s Arte’s money. I’m just saying he needs to figure out what his priorities are and quit jerking Trout and the fans around while saying one thing and not following through. 

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2 hours ago, Lou said:

I sincerely hope that you guys don't run your own businesses.

I disagree. (Edited for language - apologies to Lou)

How much did Arte buy the Angels for and how much are they worth now? He can easily afford to make less over 2-3 seasons and make it back in 6-7 when the teams sucks again or the farm is cheap. 

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I mean it’s obviously extremely unlikely that they’d sign both Cole and Rendon, or Cole and Strasburg.  But what’s the deal with this “bad business” nonsense ? Arte doesn’t have to return value to investors.  If you can’t get yourself to dream on the possibilities of that kind of star power.  I mean, that sucks.  
 

and also, he could do it and in the end he’ll still come up.  His investment in the Angels has appreciated an almost unfathomable amount.  He operates in black most likely.  The team doesn’t have debt.  How much longer do we think Arte has to win one ? He’s going to have to give up the team eventually.  And if they do win a lot for several years. They’ll make shit tons of money with all that star power.  
 

anyway, unlikely.  

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2 hours ago, Sean-Regan said:

This is it for me. Obviously Arte spends a lot of money on the team. I don’t begrudge him wanting to make money. It’s his, he can do whatever he wants with it. What does bug me is when he talks about the importance or winning and legacy and isn’t willing to go all in. He cheaps out or spends on the wrong guy (Wells, Hamilton, etc). 

The team has a huge chance to make up for the last 7 years this offseason. It requires Arte to go bigger than he’s ever gone. It’s a big ask. I get that. And if Arte cares more about his bottom line than those other things, so be it. But this is his chance. This is the time to make a move. It’ll take a couple of years of big money if he has the sand for that, but he can afford it, and if he really means what he says in public and doesn’t just care about putting a .500 team out there, he needs to go big. Otherwise, don’t fire Ausmus and go get Maddon. Don’t re-sign Trout and tell him we’re committed to winning. It’s pointless if all we care about is 85 wins. 

So good.

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Imagine an off-season where Arte is willing to increase payroll right after giving Trout an extension, and signing Maddon, and bringing in Callaway....where we end up with none of the top free agents.

I don't think that's going to happen. Obviously there's only so much you can do; ultimately it's up to the player themselves to decide if they want to sign here. But all signs point to both Cole and Strasburg having interest in playing for the Angels so I'd say it's a good bet we end up with one of them. Both? Yeah probably not. 

If we end up with both or get one of them and Rendon, I'll violate Tank's restraining order and .....(use your imagination)

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I still that if we strike out on Cole and Stras, then expect some of the farm (Adell, Marsh, Adams, etc..) to be unloaded for pitching. With signing Trout to a long term extension and bringing in Maddon, there's no way this is another year we go shopping for peanuts (Harvey, Cahill, Allen). He will get a big name or two one way or another.

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let's recap...

  • Arte has committed over $400M to Trout
  • $340M to buy a stadium/property
  • owes $130M to Pujols & Upton
  • is reportedly willing to give Cole $250M

and some of you think it's no big deal to give another guy $220M+? 

I think it's time to let the billionaire owner decide how to run the team while you guys decide whether macaroni or potato salad would go better with the hot dogs you're planning to serve at your above-ground pool party next week .

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Ultimately it comes down to this, what matters more, the business of baseball or the game of baseball.
IF Arte wants to win that title, if he wants to be the west coast Yankees, he has 2 choices; spend now, stupidly so, and let the books balance over the next few years and eat some costs he might now want to but can clearly afford, or, continue to play the farm game with a 500 team picking later draft picks and it may or may not ever happen.
As others have said, this is his off season.
IF he wanted to he could go ham (that ones for you @Jeff Fletcher) and virtually assure himself a shot at a possible WS run, the parts are in fact out there either in FA or known trade opportunities.  The simple reality is that this is what its going to take to do that.  The Yankees will always be the Yankees and unless we plan to suck for a decade, which clearly they do not or they would have shipped Trout, the waiting on the farm game isnt going to get it done.   
The fact is that our farm took a step back last year and right now isnt likely to produce enough top tier talent to make that a reality as of this moment with half the league having better farms than us still.
This is his moment, this is where we find out what matters more to him, the game, or the business.

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15 minutes ago, Lou said:

let's recap...

  • Arte has committed over $400M to Trout
  • $340M to buy a stadium/property
  • owes $130M to Pujols & Upton
  • is reportedly willing to give Cole $250M

and some of you think it's no big deal to give another guy $220M+? 

I think it's time to let the billionaire owner decide how to run the team while you guys decide whether macaroni or potato salad would go better with the hot dogs you're planning to serve at your above-ground pool party next week .

Who in their right mind would pick macaroni salad over potato salad?

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