Imagining a Cole-less offseason

[CanadianHalo]

Sure sounding like we’re not going to have to play the imagine game for much longer 

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

He would be a big help if he was worth under $10M. I’d rather get a guy like Maldonado if that means getting Cole and another high end starter. Tired of us looking for offense upgrades before anything else. 

14 WAR over the last 3 years. That’s over 100m in value for years. Even if you expect him to get worse fairly quickly, it’s ridiculous to say he’s only worth 10m.

[Docwaukee]

4 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

He would be a big help if he was worth under $10M. I’d rather get a guy like Maldonado if that means getting Cole and another high end starter. Tired of us looking for offense upgrades before anything else. 

wins are wins no matter where you get them.  They're not getting another high end starter on top of Cole.  

[T.G.]

10 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

My point is I’m not paying high dollar for Grandal until pitching is solved. Angels were smart to miss out on him

You're right... you're not.

[JustATroutFan]

Already making excuses for Eppler for 2020. It's been like five years now and the Angels still have not made the postseason even one time since he's been part of the organization. 

[Stradling]

Just now, JustATroutFan said:

Already making excuses for Eppler for 2020. It's been like five years now and the Angels still have not made the postseason even one time since he's been part of the organization. 

Cool.  He has very little to do with that considering what he took over.  

[kevinb]

28 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Cool.  He has very little to do with that considering what he took over.  

Wait you think Eppler's had very little to do with the major league product? 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Wait you think Eppler's had very little to do with the major league product? 

I think there are reasons it is how it is and very little of that is on the GM. 

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think there are reasons it is how it is and very little of that is on the GM. 

Very little is on the GM? I am truly confused. I get the farm being a disaster. But everyone except Trout and Pujols I think are Eppler people on this team. So I don't know how you could even suggest that Eppler doesn't have a hand in building the roster which in turn has everything to do with the standings. To say he has very little to do with the roster is false. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Very little is on the GM? I am truly confused. I get the farm being a disaster. But everyone except Trout and Pujols I think are Eppler people on this team. So I don't know how you could even suggest that Eppler doesn't have a hand in building the roster which in turn has everything to do with the standings. To say he has very little to do with the roster is false. 

Yep, he had a limited budget, and had to secure Trout before making long term commitments to free agents.  When you have nothing to trade from in the minors, no real value to trade not he big club and you have bad contracts in Albert, Hamilton, Wilson and Street when you take over, yea, there are going to be challenges.  He had to build from within and that is going fairly well.  He signed short term pitching contracts because the only ones worth a long term deal wanted the East Coast.  Also with the little farm he had when he took over he turned that into a guy averaging a 5 WAR since he has been here.  You can place blame on him for Upton if he doesn’t turn it around.  You can blame him for Cozart sucking.  But he has had the ability to find pitching out of nowhere.  Without Trout the direction completely changes.  So if he were to make big financial commitments to guys with no idea if Trout was going to be here that would be foolish.  So like I said there are reasons.  If you’d choose to ignore those and want to assume he could have done much more while also understanding the complete rebuild they would currently be under without Trout, go right ahead.  

[kevinb]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep, he had a limited budget, and had to secure Trout before making long term commitments to free agents.  When you have nothing to trade from in the minors, no real value to trade not he big club and you have bad contracts in Albert, Hamilton, Wilson and Street when you take over, yea, there are going to be challenges.  He had to build from within and that is going fairly well.  He signed short term pitching contracts because the only ones worth a long term deal wanted the East Coast.  Also with the little farm he had when he took over he turned that into a guy averaging a 5 WAR since he has been here.  You can place blame on him for Upton if he doesn’t turn it around.  You can blame him for Cozart sucking.  But he has had the ability to find pitching out of nowhere.  Without Trout the direction completely changes.  So if he were to make big financial commitments to guys with no idea if Trout was going to be here that would be foolish.  So like I said there are reasons.  If you’d choose to ignore those and want to assume he could have done much more while also understanding the complete rebuild they would currently be under without Trout, go right ahead.  

Limited budget? I don't know about that. I will grant you the farm system wasn't good. But it got us Simmons and Upton. The starting pitching has really been the issue and he tried to fix it with bandaids which didn't work last year. But saying he has little to do with the major league product I think is putting the blame elsewhere. I wouldn't put all the blame on him either but you can't say he has little to do with the major league club when everyone except 2 people are here because of him. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Limited budget? I don't know about that. I will grant you the farm system wasn't good. But it got us Simmons and Upton. The starting pitching has really been the issue and he tried to fix it with bandaids which didn't work last year. But saying he has little to do with the major league product I think is putting the blame elsewhere. I wouldn't put all the blame on him either but you can't say he has little to do with the major league club when everyone except 2 people are here because of him. 

Yes it is called not placing blame but rather having reasons.  

[CanadianHalo]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Limited budget? I don't know about that. I will grant you the farm system wasn't good. But it got us Simmons and Upton. The starting pitching has really been the issue and he tried to fix it with bandaids which didn't work last year. But saying he has little to do with the major league product I think is putting the blame elsewhere. I wouldn't put all the blame on him either but you can't say he has little to do with the major league club when everyone except 2 people are here because of him. 

Eppler spent 40 mill last season and completely whiffed. 

It’s his fault he needs to hit a grand slam this year and fill so many holes. He’s got his work cut out for him this offseason but he’s had 4 seasons to slowly patch up some of this mess 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Yes it is called not placing blame but rather having reasons.  

Is it also reasons his manager he hand picked got fired after 1 season?

[Stradling]

Heaney, Cam, Trout, Kole, Albert, Fletcher all with the organization before Eppler. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Is it also reasons his manager he hand picked got fired after 1 season?

Maddon was available and Arte wanted him.  But obviously I don’t think anyone would consider Ausmus a success.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Heaney, Cam, Trout, Kole, Albert, Fletcher all with the organization before Eppler. 

Out of those guys how many would you say are assets?

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Eppler spent 40 mill last season and completely whiffed. 

It’s his fault he needs to hit a grand slam this year and fill so many holes. 

No not really.  If he would have taken the same approach but was successful, which means he signs one year deals but to pitchers that were successful, guys like Miley, Keuchel, and whomever else.  He would be in the same exact spot.  Hell if he would have signed a guy like Lance Lynn who was good to a 3 year deal we would still be looking for him to add an ace.  The only ace available last year was Corbin and he had no interest in being on the West Coast.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Out of those guys how many would you say are assets?

All of them, except possibly Cam. 

[kevinb]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No not really.  If he would have taken the same approach but was successful, which means he signs one year deals but to pitchers that were successful, guys like Miley, Keuchel, and whomever else.  He would be in the same exact spot.  Hell if he would have signed a guy like Lance Lynn who was good to a 3 year deal we would still be looking for him to add an ace.  The only ace available last year was Corbin and he had no interest in being on the West Coast.

What do you mean no not really? If he would have signed guys who performed well last year and we made the playoffs then we'd be in an entirely different position now then last year. Sure we'd still want Cole but we wouldn't be up against it. Plus we wouldn't have had an awful year last year. Even if we only signed one year guys that were good. I am confused with what your defending. Do you not want the team to make the playoffs. Do you think no matter what he did the last 4 years we wouldn't have made the playoffs? What's the point in trading for Upton and Simmons etc if we aren't trying to make the playoffs every year? 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

What do you mean no not really? If he would have signed guys who performed well last year and we made the playoffs then we'd be in an entirely different position now then last year. Sure we'd still want Cole but we wouldn't be up against it. Plus we wouldn't have had an awful year last year. Even if we only signed one year guys that were good. I am confused with what your defending. Do you not want the team to make the playoffs. Do you think no matter what he did the last 4 years we wouldn't have made the playoffs? What's the point in trading for Upton and Simmons etc if we aren't trying to make the playoffs every year? 

Ok I’m sorry you are struggling to comprehend my position.  Bottom line if he signed one year guys last year that performed he’d still have to sign guys this year.  He didn’t know he had Trout.  Now he knows as do free agents.