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Donaldson / Rendon

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I’ve never been a fan, but am now wondering if they sign Cole and fail to get Wheeler, would they be better off trying to get Donaldson or Rendon.

With Fletcher and La Stella, along with Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Cozart, they have infield depth....

Signing a premier hitter (especially Donaldson, who would not require a long commitment) may be just the thing to put them over the top. 

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It’s been rumored Donaldson might get three years easily, and maybe even four...at his age, it’s a risk, but he’s been a favorite Plan B of mine since before the offseason started. I do think if for some reason the Angels do pivot to a bat *secondary* to a Cole/Strasburg/even Wheeler signing, you will see a pretty significant trade for another arm involving an infielder or two. 

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1 minute ago, totdprods said:

It’s been rumored Donaldson might get three years easily, and maybe even four...at his age, it’s a risk, but he’s been a favorite Plan B of mine since before the offseason started. I do think if for some reason the Angels do pivot to a bat *secondary* to a Cole/Strasburg/even Wheeler signing, you will see a pretty significant trade for another arm involving an infielder or two. 

If there's legitimate interest in Fletcher, La Stella and Rengifo, and that interest can result in a mid rotation starter or better, and Donaldson doesn't cost more than what you would otherwise pay a mid rotation starter on the open market (like Ryu and Wheeler), then yeah.

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9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If there's legitimate interest in Fletcher, La Stella and Rengifo, and that interest can result in a mid rotation starter or better, and Donaldson doesn't cost more than what you would otherwise pay a mid rotation starter on the open market (like Ryu and Wheeler), then yeah.

This is the only way it would make sense. I don’t see it happening, but you never know. 

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2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

We definitely need a bat ... I’ve been saying Donaldson but don’t see that happening. We’ve been rumored to Castellanos. I see Eppler either trading or signing a must needed MOTO bat. 

Castellanos won't be a solution at 3B (his defense is bad there) but he could play 1B, possibly or in the corners (but again his defense is rough). I agree that we could pick up a MOTO bat probably at 1B and a bit of time at DH. I talk about it more in the Primer Series too.

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4 hours ago, Hubs said:

I’ve never been a fan, but am now wondering if they sign Cole and fail to get Wheeler, would they be better off trying to get Donaldson or Rendon.

With Fletcher and La Stella, along with Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Cozart, they have infield depth....

Signing a premier hitter (especially Donaldson, who would not require a long commitment) may be just the thing to put them over the top. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "never been a fan"...a fan of what or whom? If you're saying Donaldson, well he was the second best player in baseball for a few years and is still very good; Rendon is now one of the five or so best players in the game. 

Anyhow, it isn't a bad idea - but Rendon might be as expensive as Cole, so I don't see them signing both (That's $60-70M AAV, plus Trout = over $100M for three players for the next 7+ years).

Donaldson, would make more sense, but he's still probably going to get something like 3/$60M, maybe even 3/$75M or 4/$80M.

But I really do think that the Angels non-1B infield is asolid, maybe even very good. The priority remains signing the two best starters possible, and then re-calibrating based upon who they get. 

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Donaldson for 3 years would be awesome. I like his bat and his attitude. He is a true pro, works on his craft and take his job seriously. Maybe some of his approach might rub off on Upton. LOL  I don't know , maybe Upton is the hardest worker on the team but he comes off a little aloft. Those photos of him riding the couch with a toe injury doesn't help his image. 

Getting Donaldson would IMO make Simmons available. Simmons is a great SS but Fletcher is a real SS with a good bat and La Stella and Rengifo are serviceable.  I am not that high on Thaiss or Ward but they could surprise. 

Which teams would be interested in Simmons?   What could we get in return?  SP?

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1 minute ago, Rollinghard said:

Donaldson for 3 years would be awesome. I like his bat and his attitude. He is a true pro, works on his craft and take his job seriously. Maybe some of his approach might rub off on Upton. LOL  I don't know , maybe Upton is the hardest worker on the team but he comes off a little aloft. Those photos of him riding the couch with a toe injury doesn't help his image. 

Getting Donaldson would IMO make Simmons available. Simmons is a great SS but Fletcher is a real SS with a good bat and La Stella and Rengifo are serviceable.  I am not that high on Thaiss or Ward but they could surprise. 

Which teams would be interested in Simmons?   What could we get in return?  SP?

I would rather have Simmons at SS than Donaldson at 3B.

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Simmons is a much better shortstop than Fletch. Simmons had a better bat but was a little off last year. No one wants to give value for a player off a down year so I doubt he’s traded. 
 

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9 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

We definitely need a bat ... I’ve been saying Donaldson but don’t see that happening. We’ve been rumored to Castellanos. I see Eppler either trading or signing a must needed MOTO bat. 

I thought that was why Pujols was signed.

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Let’s stop with the recency bias too guys... David has one year plus of experience, Simmons has 7? It’s far easier to predict what a player will do with experience than one without. 

Another example is La Stella, is he the new player we saw last year or a platoon player? 
 

Donaldson I felt was always a bit overrated, but he really hits and is a GG defender. 

 

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7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

But I really do think that the Angels non-1B infield is asolid, maybe even very good. The priority remains signing the two best starters possible, and then re-calibrating based upon who they get.

It continues to mystify me that the board seems to have so much faith in the young infielders and not the young pitchers. Pitching is certainly more of a pressing need, I get that, and the stats for our young arms on paper are uglier than those the young bats posted, but we’re in a similar boat in regards to both.

  • La Stella: career .711 OPS, 94 OPS+ prior to last season, and possibly gone after this season.
  • Simmons: As an Angel, .723 OPS, 97 OPS+, averaging 133 games, also possibly gone at end of year. 
  • Fletcher: One of the bright spots, he still only has a .716 OPS, 94 OPS+ In his career. Technically, a below average bat, and one whose fate is tied strongly to BAbip and his ability to put the ball in play. 
  • Pujols: .734 OPS, 94 OPS+ last season, which was a ‘rebound’.

Our starting infield is collectively below-average offensively. The reinforcements have potential, sure, but...

  • Rengifo: .685 OPS, 84 OPS+
  • Thaiss: .714 OPS, 88 OPS+
  • Walsh: .605 OPS, 61 OPS+
  • Ward: .625, 67 OPS+
  • Jones: .631 OPS in AA
  • Cozart: .322 OPS, -12 OPS+ 

La Stella was our only above average offensive bat last year. Couple that with the fact our catching situation is an offensive black hole, Upton sucked, and we let go a slightly above average hitter in Calhoun (108 OPS+) then I think it becomes abundantly clear why the Angels might explore IF FA options. 

Where our infield does shine is in depth, versatility, and potential, like you mentioned. But potential might not realize in 2020, and the fact that these guys can mostly be optioned to serve as depth, is further reason why the Angels quite possibly should be considering FA IF - maybe not Rendon or Donaldson level, but mid-tier is fair. Castellanos splitting 1B/DH/RF/LF makes some sense. The same strengths I mentioned above for our infield also make them quite valuable in trade, even if they aren’t posting big numbers yet, and Eppler has alluded to their interest to other clubs.

Signing a bat, ideally in addition to Cole/Strasburg/Wheeler, and flipping infielders for an arm is certainly on the table, I think. Especially with the Wheeler/Ryu/Bumgarner tier looking difficult to shop in.

 

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12 hours ago, Hubs said:

I’ve never been a fan, but am now wondering if they sign Cole and fail to get Wheeler, would they be better off trying to get Donaldson or Rendon.

With Fletcher and La Stella, along with Rengifo, Thaiss, Ward, Cozart, they have infield depth....

Signing a premier hitter (especially Donaldson, who would not require a long commitment) may be just the thing to put them over the top. 

They have depth but it's not quality depth. These guys listed above are sub-par band-aids in a time of need.  The Angels lineup lacks thump after the 5 hole. I'd be interested in making a move for Rendon but Donaldson is a hard pass. His prime is past and the Angels don't need to be paying for what he accomplished years ago.  

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IF we got this route, it cant be Donaldson.  WE have like zero pipeline at 3B.  If were going to spend to solidify the spot for a while, which im in favor of, we better do it right and while Donaldson had a great season for the Braves were talking about his age 34+ seasons versus Rendons 29-30+

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3 hours ago, floplag said:

IF we got this route, it cant be Donaldson.  WE have like zero pipeline at 3B.  If were going to spend to solidify the spot for a while, which im in favor of, we better do it right and while Donaldson had a great season for the Braves were talking about his age 34+ seasons versus Rendons 29-30+

Yeah but Donaldson’s commitment will be less and so will his money.

In 3 seasons they can get another 3B via free agency or can draft a college hitter at the position this draft with an eye on the future, or Fletcher can end up at 3b too. Wilson / Jones at 2nd.

 

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FWIW, I know his defense is shit and he doesn’t quite fit a positional need, but I do think there’s an argument that Castellanos could have his offensive peak ahead of him whereas Donaldson’s best days are probably behind him, and Castellanos might come on a fairly palatable AAV. Some projections have him at like 4/$58-64m.

Castellanos could split time in 2020 at 1B (less Pujols ABs), some one RF (platoon with Goodwin until Adell is ready), some at DH (since he sucks defensively, Ohtani will hit less, and Pujols May play better at 1B), and occasionally LF if Upton needs a day. Maybe emergency 3B. 

Then, next year, as Pujols starts to wrap up, he can transition to 1B/DH/LF more, taking over full-time when Pujols hangs up, or maybe to LF after Upton. 

Angels can then move Thaiss/Marsh plus for a SP to pair up with Cole. 

Edited by totdprods

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44 minutes ago, totdprods said:

FWIW, I know his defense is shit and he doesn’t quite fit a positional need, but I do think there’s an argument that Castellanos could have his offensive peak ahead of him whereas Donaldson’s best days are probably behind him, and Castellanos might come on a fairly palatable AAV. Some projections have him at like 4/$58-64m.

Castellanos could split time in 2020 at 1B (less Pujols ABs), some one RF (platoon with Goodwin until Adell is ready), some at DH (since he sucks defensively, Ohtani will hit less, and Pujols May play better at 1B), and occasionally LF if Upton needs a day. Maybe emergency 3B. 

Then, next year, as Pujols starts to wrap up, he can transition to 1B/DH/LF more, taking over full-time when Pujols hangs up, or maybe to LF after Upton. 

Angels can then move Thaiss/Marsh plus for a SP to pair up with Cole. 

Castellanos would fit best at 1B and platooning with Upton in LF (and maybe Adell for the first year). Some DH time would come his way too. It looks like his bat might be breaking out even more possibly as well based on the last two seasons of peripheral data.

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2 hours ago, ettin said:

Castellanos would fit best at 1B and platooning with Upton in LF (and maybe Adell for the first year). Some DH time would come his way too. It looks like his bat might be breaking out even more possibly as well based on the last two seasons of peripheral data.

Yup. He might not be a perfect fit positionally right now, but he could probably settle into a ‘long-term’ 1B/DH/LF option as Pujols and perhaps Upton exit, and if he keeps blossoming into something like an .850-.950 OPS bat for a contract as low as 4-5 years  and $15m AAV, it’s not a bad deal at all. At that price, it’s much more feasible that they can add him, maybe back-loaded like Cole, and still one other lesser SP like a Roark, Wood, Keuchel, Teheran and a cheap vet catcher or two. That’s much harder to do with Rendon or Donaldson. And he’ll only be 28 next year.

Edited by totdprods

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10 hours ago, totdprods said:

It continues to mystify me that the board seems to have so much faith in the young infielders and not the young pitchers. Pitching is certainly more of a pressing need, I get that, and the stats for our young arms on paper are uglier than those the young bats posted, but we’re in a similar boat in regards to both

 

Well, the last half decade doesn't lend itself well to having faith in young arms. Even beyond the Angels' terrible luck, pitching tends to be more volatile.

I actually think the Angels could build a very good homegrown rotation, but we're probably 2-3 years away from that. But imagine 2023, without adding anyone:

Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Soriano, C Rodriguez, Hernandez, Kochanowicz....some nice arms there.

Further, there were nice developments in the infield last year: La Stella had what looks like a legit breakout seasons and should be able to at least produce around an .800 OPS and solid defense; Fletcher continues to be quite valuable; and Rengifo showed flashes of being an above average player. Sure, Simmons had an off year, but he should bounce-back a good amount.

I'm not opposed to upgrading the offense, but there are weaker spots than 2B-SS-3B: namely, C and 1B.

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I actually only think they need to add a bat if it’s an elite position player ....

Unless they decide to bring back Calhoun to play some RF, and some 1B.

I like Thaiss the most of the “reinforcements” and think he’ll end up getting most of the playing time at 1st, (say 75-80 games, while Pujols gets 65-70, and LaStella or someone else gets 12-22) and some at 3rd. 

Unless we sign or trade for a 3rd basemen.

 

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