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Willson Contreras


Hubs

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After starting pitching, some offense out of the catching spot is certainly next on the wish list. I looked around the internet and saw some trade packages that were lopsided in the Cubs favor and ones lopsided in the acquiring teams favor.

What is a good return for a guy like Contreras, who is either #1 or #2 as far as hitting catchers go?

I saw Adell, Adams, and Heaney for Contreras --- way too friendly to the Cubs side. Adell is not being traded. Even Marsh instead still makes this lean to the Cubs side. However, Adams and say Rengifo plus say Suarez is probably too Angels friendly.

Combine it with the Cozart for Kimbrell trade, ditch the prospect coming back and I think you have something.

I don't like the idea of trading Heaney, but you can sign a guy like Cole Hamels for a few million more to replace (and maybe exceed) his production.

 

My trade package then is:

Jordyn Adams

Luis Rengifo

Jose Suarez

Andrew Heaney

Zack Cozart

 

for

Willson Contreras

Craig Kimbrell

 

 

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Yes the infield depth takes a hit, but you still have La Stella, Fletcher, and Simmons as starters, and Matt Thaiss on the corners. You also have Jose Rojas in AAA. You could sign a Moustakas or a Zobrist if you felt it was necessary.

All in all, the Cubs are trading $21 M in salary and acquiring $18 M, which means the total cost is only around $3 M for the Angels.

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Cubs are such a fascinating team to pair with. We match up in so many ways so well, and the Maddon variable really adds a whole other x-factor. You could probably layer in Boston’s situation and the connections and insight between Theo and La Russa to work a few hypothetical three-way deals into discussion too. 

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3 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Yes the infield depth takes a hit, but you still have La Stella, Fletcher, and Simmons as starters, and Matt Thaiss on the corners. You also have Jose Rojas in AAA. You could sign a Moustakas or a Zobrist if you felt it was necessary.

All in all, the Cubs are trading $21 M in salary and acquiring $18 M, which means the total cost is only around $3 M for the Angels.

I’d rather trade Marsh instead of Jordyn Adams 

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No.. im sorry but thats just too much even for Contreras who i would love to have.   Im not that high on Kimbrel so including him only helps Chi, not us, and i dont want to give up two pitchers in that deal.

Im not that up on the Cubs so i did a little googling and came across a couple of articles which suggests we do match up extremely well in that their needs are 2B and CF.   
https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-offseason-needs-and-moves
https://www.mlb.com/cubs/news/five-questions-facing-cubs-this-offseason

Assuming the above is accurate we could do something with some of the depth at those spots but i dont think Adell comes up.  Some combination or Marsh, Adams, Jones, Rengifo (not all maybe 2 pending who they want)  and maybe a pitcher if they sweeten thier side. 

Alternatively, we could go blockbuster here if they want to shake up the core more as the article put it.   Names like Bryant and Schwarber keep popping up as possible being dangled.  There was another thread that mentioned a deal that got us Bryant and Contreras that involved a name no one wants to hear attached to trade.

For me the reality is that the matchup is there, it all depends how far each team is willing to go. 

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15 minutes ago, totdprods said:

...and the Maddon variable really adds a whole other x-factor.

I see this or something similar to this in a lot of the threads and I think it's overstated. Other than Ben Zobrist - name other former Rays that went to the Cubs because of him.  And how does Maddon being an Angel actually have any tangible impact on the Angels ability to make a trade with the Cubs? Can someone actually spell out what the "Maddon X-Factor" is?  I'm trying to think of players who signed FA contracts specifically or tangibly because of the Manager of a team and I can't think of any.  Maybe they're out there, I just think this idea is a little bit pixie dustish.

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1 minute ago, floplag said:

No.. im sorry but thats just too much even for Contreras who i would love to have.   Im not that high on Kimbrel so including him only helps Chi, not us, and i dont want to give up two pitchers in that deal.

Im not that up on the Cubs so i did a little googling and came across a couple of articles which suggests we do match up extremely well in that their needs are 2B and CF.   
https://www.mlb.com/news/cubs-offseason-needs-and-moves
https://www.mlb.com/cubs/news/five-questions-facing-cubs-this-offseason

Assuming the above is accurate we could do something with some of the depth at those spots but i dont think Adell comes up.  Some combination or Marsh, Adams, Jones, Rengifo (not all maybe 2 pending who they want)  and maybe a pitcher if they sweeten thier side. 

Alternatively, we could go blockbuster here if they want to shake up the core more as the article put it.   Names like Bryant and Schwarber keep popping up as possible being dangled.  There was another thread that mentioned a deal that got us Bryant and Contreras that involved a name no one wants to hear attached to trade.

For me the reality is that the matchup is there, it all depends how far each team is willing to go. 

Taking a chance on Kimbrell for essentially Cozart's money in 2020, is a gamble for sure, but it would significantly lessen the prospects needed to give up.

The Cubs site said Adell, Adams and Heaney for Contreras, which is such a dramatic overpay.

The trade value site lists Adell at a value of 96.4. Adams is only 8.4, and Heaney was 5.7. Total Value = 110.5 Contreras is listed at 16.2. Total Value 16.2.

Drop Adell, and it's more realistic. But I don't really want to give up Heaney either.

 

If you drop out Heaney and Suarez from my projected trade above and add Kimbrell and Cozart to the deal, the value actually favors the Cubs...still.

Suarez' value was at 16.2. Kimbrell was -21.2 and Cozart was -12.7. Rengifo is listed at 1.6 FYI.

 

So, my trade, minus the two pitchers:

Adams 8.4

Rengifo 1.6

Cozart -12.7

= Total Value -2.7

Contreras 16.2

Kimbrell -21.2

= Total Value -5.

Much more realistic. But while the Cubs save around $8 M with this deal, they also don't get anything they really need for 2020, except infield depth. So maybe you have to send them a pitcher like Barria or Sandoval.

 

If you expand it further to add a guy like Kris Bryant, (Value 27) you have to give up a lot more, maybe Marsh instead of Adams (Marsh is at 20), Jose Suarez and Barria.

Marsh 20

Rengifo 1.6

Cozart -12.7

Suarez 16.2

Barria 1.1

Total Value = 26.2

Contreras 16.2

Kimbrell -21.2

Bryant 27

Total Value = 22

 

I doubt they'd do it for that, even though said scenario still favors the Cubs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Rengifo, Marsh, Adams, Adell, Kochanowicz, Rodriguez and Soriano are off limits in my book. And thus, Contreras is likely off limits as well. 

Plus, I just don't think he's necessary. Calloway had a great rapport with Gomes in Cleveland and the offense really isn't nearly as big of an issue as pitching. So having solid defensive catchers to guide the pitching staff is more important to me than having amazing offensive catchers.

I'd rather keep my prospects and roll with Stassi and Smith.

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12 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Rengifo, Marsh, Adams, Adell, Kochanowicz, Rodriguez and Soriano are off limits in my book. And thus, Contreras is likely off limits as well. 

Plus, I just don't think he's necessary. Calloway had a great rapport with Gomes in Cleveland and the offense really isn't nearly as big of an issue as pitching. So having solid defensive catchers to guide the pitching staff is more important to me than having amazing offensive catchers.

I'd rather keep my prospects and roll with Stassi and Smith.

Neither of those Catchers is a primary Catcher. They need offense, and most of the budget is set to get FA starters.

If you could get Contreras for Adams and Rengifo, you've got to do it.

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Just now, Hubs said:

Neither of those Catchers is a primary Catcher. They need offense, and most of the budget is set to get FA starters.

If you could get Contreras for Adams and Rengifo, you've got to do it.

No, you really don't. And neither does Chicago. There's a lot more to the catching position that being a decent fantasy baseball asset, be which is how you're treating this.

Contreras is a great bat for a backstop, but his ability to command a staff isn't going to be a difference maker. There Angels shortcomings came on the mound. You need a catcher that's an expert working with Calloway and is notable for his rapport with a young pitching staff, neither of which Contreras is. You can get Gomes for no prospect capital and he will have just as large of an impact if not greater.

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27 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I see this or something similar to this in a lot of the threads and I think it's overstated. Other than Ben Zobrist - name other former Rays that went to the Cubs because of him.  And how does Maddon being an Angel actually have any tangible impact on the Angels ability to make a trade with the Cubs? Can someone actually spell out what the "Maddon X-Factor" is?  I'm trying to think of players who signed FA contracts specifically or tangibly because of the Manager of a team and I can't think of any.  Maybe they're out there, I just think this idea is a little bit pixie dustish.

Jon Lester. 

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25 minutes ago, Hubs said:

The Trade Value site said my trade was way too much of an overpay from the Angels.

So drop Suarez I suppose and add a few million in Cash from the Cubs and it gets closer.

the trade value simulator has Rengifo at 1.6.  Lower than Maitan, Stassi, Hermosillo, Ward and a whole mess of other minor league players.  

the other thing to make note of and why I wonder about people thinking we match up with the Cubs is that they need a major league CFer who can hit leadoff.  Adell is off limits and Marsh isn't quite ready.  They've actually got infield depth.  If they did opt for someone on the Angels, it would likely be fletcher.    

Contreras is also a poor framer and Eppler likes his framers.  

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27 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Also, I'm not expecting Chicago to trade Contreras or Kimbrel. Just because Joe Maddon isn't there anymore doesn't mean they're going to sell players off and rebuild.

For whatever its worth, most of the trade banter is coming out of Chi from what im reading.  They have a lot of guys at various stages of arbitration etc... and apparently want to restructure some of that money.   They may not want to trade anyone, but they may need to to make other moves sort of thing. 
It wont be a sell off or rebuild, just moving something they can afford to move for something they dont have. 

We have what they need, its really that simple. 

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2 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Ok tell you what, if the Cubs are willing to trade Contreras for Jahmai Jones, Will Wilson, Jaime Barria and Hector Yan, then I'd do it.

Still feels too much.  Remember Contreras only has a year left on his deal.   IF it were to happen for just Contreras, they would need to address 2B and CF, maybe Adams and Jones type thing ..  much more than that and it kinda defeats the purpose for both sides.

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6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

No, you really don't. And neither does Chicago. There's a lot more to the catching position that being a decent fantasy baseball asset, be which is how you're treating this.

Contreras is a great bat for a backstop, but his ability to command a staff isn't going to be a difference maker. There Angels shortcomings came on the mound. You need a catcher that's an expert working with Calloway and is notable for his rapport with a young pitching staff, neither of which Contreras is. You can get Gomes for no prospect capital and he will have just as large of an impact if not greater.

I know you love prospects more than actual Major League players, but if Rengifo and Adams gets you a 27 year old power bat as a catcher, you do it.

Rengifo's ceiling is what, Didi Gregorius?

Adams is a physical specimen I'd rather not trade, but you have to part with someone to trade for someone.

3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Ok tell you what, if the Cubs are willing to trade Contreras for Jahmai Jones, Will Wilson, Jaime Barria and Hector Yan, then I'd do it.

You really value Rengifo over Wilson? Seriously?

I'd do the trade above with Wilson subbed for Rengifo, and add in the Kimbrel / Cozart swap.

 

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1 minute ago, Hubs said:

I know you love prospects more than actual Major League players, but if Rengifo and Adams gets you a 27 year old power bat as a catcher, you do it.

Rengifo's ceiling is what, Didi Gregorius?

Adams is a physical specimen I'd rather not trade, but you have to part with someone to trade for someone.

You really value Rengifo over Wilson? Seriously?

I'd do the trade above with Wilson subbed for Rengifo, and add in the Kimbrel / Cozart swap.

 

I value Rengifo over Wilson, yes.

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3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Cozart is definitely the X factor in this trade he is really untouchable and has outperformed his contract so much that any team would be really silly not to try to trade for him.... 

We'd be taking on Kimbrel, who is worth less.

 

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3 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Cozart is definitely the X factor in this trade he is really untouchable and has outperformed his contract so much that any team would be really silly not to try to trade for him.... 

The only thing remotely funny about this is that you're probably being serious.

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27 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Neither of those Catchers is a primary Catcher. They need offense, and most of the budget is set to get FA starters.

If you could get Contreras for Adams and Rengifo, you've got to do it.

You got to factor in what other teams have to offer. I'm sure there would be better than what you are offering.

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