MLB Network: Joel Sherman plays Angels GM for day

[Chuck]

Joel Sherman joins Hot Stove to play Angels GM for the day, where he suggests the team seeks pitching help and Yasmani Grandal.

[ispy45]

Nope, Upton NTC and another left field hole  again.

[eaterfan]

I've seen people continually bring up Upton's NTC as a reason he won't be moved. People know players have been moved who have no trade clauses, right? They usually just require some some sort of compensation to waive them. Sure, it's certainly a barrier to getting things done, but it certainly isn't a discussion ender.

[ispy45]

Yes.  After noticing the revamp coaching staff, why would  Justin waive his NTC to Boston?

[ukyah]

i'm not one of those people who likes to shit all over other people's ideas, but this is awful and would devastate the angels for years to come.

[Brandon]

I thought I was going to open this and crack a joke about finding someone to take on Upton the way we did Wells, but I actually liked the thought process, dump bad contracts for positions of need....if you can stomach the salaries and luxury tax.

Something I hadn't seen or heard was Eppler stating they are going to get two pitchers in a matter of fact way. I have seen it speculated, but Joel made it sound like it's a fact that will happen from Eppler. Very encouraging.

Edited November 20, 2019 by Brandon

[Angelsfan1984]

8 minutes ago, Brandon said:

I thought I was going to open this and crack a joke about finding someone to take on Upton the way we did Wells, but I actually liked the thought process, dump bad contracts for positions of need....if you can stomach the salaries and luxury tax.

Something I hadn't seen or heard was Eppler stating they are going to get two pitchers in a matter of fact way. I have seen it speculated, but Joel made it sound like it's a fact that will happen from Eppler. Very encouraging.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

I was interested until he brought up GREG (not Craig) Kimbrell.

[Brandon]

7 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

This isn't the same. It was obvious with the one year contracts that we were dumpster diving. The people we are associated with are front line guys and Arte seems to be willing to open the check book.

[Jay]

I don't like the idea of Upton for Price.

With respect to the NTC it's just something that needs to be negotiated.

 

[Brandon]

Not sure a black dude would want to go to Boston

[Second Base]

I like the Price for Upton ideas, I really do. My only objection is with Sherman suggesting the Angels need to add prospects on to of the Upton-Price deal.

Who the heck would add prospects ON TOP of a starting LF AND payroll relief? 

That's absolute stupidity.

If it's Upton for Price straight up, sure. But nothing beyond that.

[eaterfan]

21 minutes ago, RBM said:

True but why would Eppler trade him for David Price? Eppler is in a financial position to sign and/or trade for two SP's who will outperform Price at this stage of his career. And he keeps Upton who I think will have a very healthy, productive year.

Bottom line - I have more faith in Upton than I do in Price.

I was not commenting on this specific scenario. I have just seen in 3-4 threads people mention trading Upton and inevitably bring up his NTC as though a player can't be moved if he has one.

[CanadianHalo]

A 34 year old pitcher who has missed significant time the last 2 seasons due to injuries... gee what could possibly go wrong

[AngelsLakersFan]

Upton for Price straight up is a bad deal for the Angels. Sure it's trading from strength to fill weakness but you have to think Upton is a far better bet going forward than Price while being owed less money.

[Docwaukee]

11 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Upton for Price straight up is a bad deal for the Angels. Sure it's trading from strength to fill weakness but you have to think Upton is a far better bet going forward than Price while being owed less money.

for sure.  two years difference in age for the baseball world is huge.  Especially when it's considering a 32yo vs. a 34yo.  

a huge divergence from the mean starts at about age 32/33 for pitchers.  

For hitters, that huge down slope usually doesn't begin till about age 34.  

price is owed 96m for age 34-36

upton is owed 72m for age 32-34.  

what you're likely to get from price would cost about 10-12m per year on the FA market.  

what you're likely to get from Upton would cost probably 12-15m mil per on the FA market.

keeping Upton and spending 12m per on a FA for the next three years costs you about 35m total

trading for price and spending 12m on a FA costs you 45m.  

Keeping Upton also makes an OF prospect or two more expendable for a trade.    

[Hubs]

What if they threw in Bientiendi. Everyone says yes to that. 

[Angel Oracle]

52 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

A 34 year old pitcher who has missed significant time the last 2 seasons due to injuries... gee what could possibly go wrong

And only averaged 4.86 innings/start in 2019.    The Halos already had enough of that in 2019.

Keep Upton at least for 2020, and rebuild enough trade value while his hitting hopefully returns to 2017-2018 form.   Give Adell and Marsh enough time to become solid players here in 2020.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by Angel Oracle

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, RBM said:

 

Is Vlad a black dude too?

[Justin]

Upton was crap last season but put up 3.8 bWAR in '18 and 5.8 bWAR in '17. I have more faith in him bouncing back than I do Price. 

[Angelsfan1984]

Big Papi isn't black lol....

[Jay]

Impostor...!

[Dtwncbad]

I am just not seeing the need for a specific effort to move Justin Upton.

There is nothing wrong with having Justin Upton on this team playing left field in 2020.

[Hubs]

Any Contract is movable if you take on money.

Exactly my point all week regarding Cozart. I don't want Craig Kimbrell really, but if it was in exchange for Zack Cozart and a lower tier prospect, who wouldn't take that gamble?

And Upton for Price is actually intriguing. I'd prefer Sale obviously, over Price, but either works. Price actually has such a negative surplus value, that it probably costs them Benintendi to move him for Upton, and the Angels have to throw them a guy like say Knowles or Jones or something off the top ten list, but not an elite guy like Adell or Marsh.

Can you imagine a scenario where they get Price, Cole, and a guy like Wheeler or Bumgarner? Plus Kimbrel, and Grandal? And yes it's doable financially.

Trading Upton for Price and Benintendi adds like $15 in luxury tax dollars per season, but the real dollars are similar. Upton makes 72/3 and Price is at $93/3. Bientiendi is under arbitration.

Assume Cole comes at $34 AAV, but lower in years one and two in real dollars. Assume Wheeler/Bumgarner comes at 21 AAV and is lower in years one and two in real dollars. Grandal is gonna be around 3/51.

Kimbrel costing only Cozart and a prospect is only gonna cost $3-4 M. I'd send them Bedrosian in exchange. So that the deal is salary neutral.

You have $140ish committed. Add the $15 for the Price/ Bientiendi deal, add $22 for Cole in his first year, add $14 for Wheeler in his first year, $14 for Grandal in his first. That brings the real payroll up to 206. Which is an increase of about 20M. You could ask for $5M in the Kimbrel deal and $3M in the Price deal per year, and probably get it.

Then you'd be at $198.

With a lineup of

Fletcher INF

Trout CF

Ohtani DH

Adell RF / Goodwin RF

Grandal C

Simmons SS

Pujols 1B

La Stella INF

Benintendi LF / Marsh LF

 

And a rotation of

Cole, Wheeler, Price, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning

 

With a pen of

Kimbrel, Robles, Buttrey, Middelton, Anderson, Ramirez, Pena, Cole

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

Uptown’s trade value has never been lower coming off the injury plagued season, and Marsh isn’t ready yet.

Given those two things, it’s a pretty stupid time to think about forcing Upton into a trade and forcing Marsh into the lineup.