Josh Bell & Chris Archer anyone? Pirates looking to make moves!

[Chuck]

How about Archer and Bell for a package? 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/11/nutting-cherington-discuss-pirates-offseason.html

[Tank]

I expect they'll be traded to the yankees, just like all good pirate players seems to have happen.

[arch stanton]

51 minutes ago, Tank said:

I expect they'll be traded to the yankees, just like all good pirate players seems to have happen.

Gerrit Cole wonders WTF you're talking about

[wopphil]

Archer would have interest to me as a back of the rotation guy. Bell will cost too much.

[totdprods]

Archer as our third SP acquisition, or our second SP acquisition coupled with Cole/Strasburg and some legit bench/catcher/bullpen improvements would be alright with me. Doubt he costs much. 

[Brandon]

I've always liked Archer and was surprised he was traded since he was the Rays ace. The trade probably cost the old GM his job after the return to TB was electric coupled with Archer having his worst season last year....which might make his value on the cheaper side in a move. I'd kick the tires on it and see if he can have a bounce back season back in the AL.

[totdprods]

Not to mention the Maddon connection again with Archer. 

I almost guarantee we'll land at least one player this offseason either because Maddon has extensive history with them or he convinced them to come here.

[TroutField]

We don’t really have the at bats for Bell unless we decided Pujols was a bench player and occasional DH. Ohtani would be primary DH and Thaiss would have to be part of the package headed back to Pittsburgh. 
 

dropping Bell into the middle of the lineup would make this offense a whole lot deeper. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Archer has been below league average each of the last two years while last year was the worst year of his career, he hasn't pitched more than 150 innings either of the last two years and he had shoulder issues which had him finish the year on the injured list.  I'm all for the Angels having a few SP or long relief types who are given ST invites and if it doesn't work out no big deal.  Given that he's going to make 9M next year, the Angels needs and how much they have to work with I don't think he's the type that should be on their radar.    

[angelsnationtalk]

He could easily platoon with Pujols at 1B and DH when Ohtani is pitching/resting. He's a switch hitter but bats much better from the left side which is the type of hitter the Angels would need. He's only due for around $5.9M in salary which is totally affordable to still go after pitching. My question is what the overall package would look like.

@totdprods can you help me out with the players swapped and $ swapped??

[Docwaukee]

I like Bell and think he's a nice player, but my guess is that PIT would want a haul for him and there's a couple things that make him not as good as you'd think.  

First and foremost, he doesn't hit lefties well as a RHed hitter.  95 wRC+ career and 94 wRC+ last year.  
He's a terrible defender at 1b.  
He's a poor base runner.  
He had a league avg second half last year.  

Archer seems fixable but then again, people have been waiting for him to get better and he's actually gotten worse.  He used to roll a fair amount of grounders but that went away last year and he got killed by the hr ball. He's worth a shot if you get him for nothing and as the third guy.  

[T.G.]

Chris Archer was acquired by Pittsburgh for Tyler Glasnow and Austin Meadows - both went on to have great seasons in Tampa Bay.  It's one of the reasons Huntington got fired.  I would imagine Cherington is looking for a nice haul for either Archer or Bell.  Archer just hasn't lived up to his potential.  He hasn't a a sub 4 ERA since 2015 - although his FIP has usually been ok up until last year.  The Pirates could have bought him out this off season, but chose to exercise his $9 million team option.  He has another option next year for $11 million.

I'd pass on both players. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by True Grich

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

He could easily platoon with Pujols at 1B and DH when Ohtani is pitching/resting. He's a switch hitter but bats much better from the left side which is the type of hitter the Angels would need. He's only due for around $5.9M in salary which is totally affordable to still go after pitching. My question is what the overall package would look like.

@totdprods can you help me out with the players swapped and $ swapped??

I don’t see Josh Bell as a fit. It’s really hard to see us trading for a big name 1B. Signing one, sure, but the capital we have to trade shouldn’t be used for a 1B. Almost any other position would be more realistic. 

As far as a hypothetical Bell + Archer deal, I think a really similar comparable deal would be dealing for Mancini and Bundy from Baltimore. Mancini can play some 1B, but also corner outfield, just in case Upton is regressing or if Adell/Goodwin don’t take RF in 2020. Mancini can play RF/1B this season, then 1B more full-time next year as Pujols is minimized. 

I really don’t see anything like that happening though. They could sign a part-time 1B/OF like Thames, Calhoun, Parra for a lot less hassle. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

Not really sure what the hype is over Archer personally.  Aside from being fairly durable, which is a plus, his numbers have always been pretty pedestrian for more of his career than they were above that.  AS some have said, as a third option, perhaps,  his salary is reasonable enough. 
Bell, well hes a DH lets be honest, and we already have one so, its a luxury item at best and we need to put our resources elsewhere. 
In short i dont see it, not if it costs us much more than a couple fringe guys which, of course it will. 

[T.G.]

It's funny how we remember certain things or certain games regarding certain players...

Archer really caught my attention back on June 2, 2015.  It was one of the most impressive pitching performances I had ever seen in person - or at least one that I can remember.  He struck out 15 Angels that night over 8 innings.  It might have been his career high for K's.  I started following him from that point on... and he's never been THAT good again.

[CanadianHalo]

No thank you to both.

Bell had a great first two months and then nose dived hard. Someone is going to overpay for him.

Unless Archer is the 3rd guy we get after signing two of the top arms then no thanks 

[JustATroutFan]

Archer’s one of the most overrated starting pitchers in the game. You can make a great case that he is. Never was an ace. To be honest, he has been average at best since the second half of 2015. 

[floplag]

i thought ... what about their catchers... then i looked, ouch. 

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, floplag said:

i thought ... what about their catchers... then i looked, ouch. 

Diaz was solid...last year.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Archer is an arrogant little fuck for being a durable slightly above average starter.

[Mark68]

4 hours ago, totdprods said:

Not to mention the Maddon connection again with Archer. 

I almost guarantee we'll land at least one player this offseason either because Maddon has extensive history with them or he convinced them to come here.

Yes, but that player's name will be...Ben Zobrist.

[T.G.]

Nobrist

[maestro]

I think it could be an interesting move tbh. Maybe Wooten/Reed can help Bell stay more on par with his monster first half ala how they helped Calhoun. I like Bell a lot more than Thaiss/Word, bad defense and all. Archer would hopefully not even need to be a #3 if free agency goes as hoped. I wouldn't send out either of our top 2 or anything- but it could be a pretty high upside move worth moving others from our top 10 for perhaps.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, JustATroutFan said:

Archer’s one of the most overrated starting pitchers in the game. You can make a great case that he is. Never was an ace. To be honest, he has been average at best since the second half of 2015. 

that would be a clear improvement over what we ran out there last year . . .

[Tank]

2 hours ago, Dochalo said:

He's a poor base runner.  

he sounds like an angel already.

make the call, eppy.