Sign in to follow this  
Troll Daddy

Expect a big trade soon

Recommended Posts

I think the Orioles would be smart to sell on Means right now.  He's got a ton of control and outperformed his peripherals.  He's already entering his age 27 season and looks like he's due for regression.  He doesn't miss bats and doesn't roll ground balls which means he a fly ball pitcher in the AL east.  He had one of the lowest hr/fb rates in baseball last year.  Either he's got some odd skill at doing so or he got tremendously lucky.  Speaking of luck, his BABIP was .256.  He was in the 90% for hard hit ball rate and in the 17th% for curve spin rate.  He's basically an analytics nightmare and equivalent to what Bridwell did a couple years ago.  

Frankly, I wouldn't go near this guy and while it's unlikely considering how obvious the smoke and mirrors are, if the Orioles found someone to give up a couple of solid players for him, they should jump on it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Fish Oil said:

I'm not half as stupid as you are sounding. 

Let me repeat what I said earlier. I will try to write slowly to help you understand.

I HAVE READ THAT THEY ARE INTERESTED IN SHOPPING HIM. THEY ARE IN THE INFANCY OF THEIR REBUILD AND WANT TO CONTINUE ADDING PROSPECTS. I THREW HIS NAME OUT THERE TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE THOUGHT.

If you read the above two sentences several times perhaps the actual meaning will sink in? I have my doubts, but please give it a try.

Ha! You do realize typing something slower or faster makes no difference when you post it correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you're expecting a big trade soon, here's a possibility coming from a very unexpected place: Chris Sale. 

Boston is under a salary crunch and intends to go through a rebuilding period over the next 2-3 years.  They extended Sale last year and he immediately went in the toilet. Velocity plummeted for a still unexplained reason.  Then, as the season went on, his velocity returned, but the ERA didn't improve. 

His FIP was still incredibly strong and he's missing as many bats as he ever has.  Still isn't walking too many batters either.  Looks like last year may have been a fluke, but that's a risk to say the least.  But if Eppler's baseball people say he's fine, and he returns to form, suddenly the Angels could get someone even better than Gerrit Cole, for less money and very little in the way of prospects. 

I'm not expecting it to happen, or even lobbying for it to happen.  I'm just saying that it's suddenly becoming more logical, and this time last year, it would've been unthinkable for Boston to trade Chris Sale.  They were just coming off a World Championship, and Sale was coming off his seventh consecutive Top 6 finish in Cy Young voting.  Also, it's incredible this guy hasn't won a single Cy Young yet.  Crazy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Second Base said:

But if Eppler's baseball people say he's fine, and he returns to form, suddenly the Angels could get someone even better than Gerrit Cole, for less money and very little in the way of prospects. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

 

Career 3.22 ERA, three Top 6 Cy Young finishes.  Led the league in strikeouts once.  Chris Sale has a career 3.03 ERA, with seven consecutive Top 6 Cy Young finishes. Led the league in strikeouts twice. 

Chris Sale 162 game average: 204 IP, 251 K's, 3.03 ERA, 1.03 WHIP 2.90 FIP, 2.1 BB/9, 11 K/9. 

Gerrit Cole 162 game average: 212 IP, 237 K's, 3.22 ERA, 1.12 WHIP, 2.64 FIP, 2.4 BB/9, 10.1 K/9

I mean it's close, but Chris Sale up to this point in their careers has clearly been the better, more dominant pitcher. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's not about who's been better but about who's going to be over the next 5 years or so.  I'm laying my money on Cole and by a wide margin.  

Of course.  No one is debating that.  The debate is who has been better.  They're both great.  I can say with 85% certainty that Cole has a brighter future.  And Sale has had the brighter past. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I can say with 85% certainty that Cole has a brighter future.  And Sale has had the brighter past. 

Doesn't exactly make me want to grab the phone and call the Red Sox.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

“the Angels could get someone even better than Gerrit Cole,”

 

31 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Of course.  No one is debating that.  The debate is who has been better.  They're both great.  I can say with 85% certainty that Cole has a brighter future.  And Sale has had the brighter past. 

The first quotes you. I didn’t ask who’d been better to date. I questioned whether Sale is better now. Even if Sale is healthy, that’s highly debatable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

 

The first quotes you. I didn’t ask who’d been better to date. I questioned whether Sale is better now. Even if Sale is healthy, that’s highly debatable. 

The statistics paint s completely clear pitcher. To deny that Sale has been better than Cole is ridiculous. Again, in the heat five years, I expect it to shift. But if your comparing a healthy Chris Sale to a healthy Gerrit Cole, Chris Sale is better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Second Base said:

The statistics paint s completely clear pitcher. To deny that Sale has been better than Cole is ridiculous. Again, in the heat five years, I expect it to shift. But if your comparing a healthy Chris Sale to a healthy Gerrit Cole, Chris Sale is better.

Again, that isn’t what I asked. I responded to one question, and you changed it to a different one.

Having said that, while Sale wins on longevity. Per FG, the best two seasons of each are virtual ties in WAR. BRef gives Sale an edge in both also, as does ERA+. Sale has been good longer. But his two best have only been a little better than Cole’s two best fwiw. With Cole being a year younger, it’s far from clear that even if healthy whether Sale would be better, which is why I asked the question.

I never asked who had been better over their career, because that is no more relevant than Blanton being a decent pitcher at one point in his career was relevant to how he would do on the Angels. You said they could get someone better than Cole, I questioned whether that was true. Who was better 3 or more years ago has no bearing on that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

Again, that isn’t what I asked. I responded to one question, and you changed it to a different one.

Having said that, while Sale wins on longevity. Per FG, the best two seasons of each are virtual ties in WAR. BRef gives Sale an edge in both also, as does ERA+. Sale has been good longer. But his two best have only been a little better than Cole’s two best fwiw. With Cole being a year younger, it’s far from clear that even if healthy whether Sale would be better, which is why I asked the question.

I never asked who had been better over their career, because that is no more relevant than Blanton being a decent pitcher at one point in his career was relevant to how he would do on the Angels. You said they could get someone better than Cole, I questioned whether that was true. Who was better 3 or more years ago has no bearing on that. 

The numbers don't lie. Chris Sale has been better than Gerrit Cole every single year, except last year. So if you're asking who the better pitcher is, it's Sale. If you ask who the better pitcher is right now, it's Cole. If you're asking who will be better in 5 years, I'd say with relative certainty I believe it will be Cole.

The reason why I believe Cole will be better is simply that with the exception of Randy Johnson, there simply isn't much of a precedence for a tall lefty with a funky delivery maintaining velocity and success late into their career.

Whereas with Gerrit Cole, there are a lot of righties that have maintained velocity and pitched extremely well into and through their mid 30's.

And the price doesn't figure to be all that different either. Sale earning 30 and Cole likely getting 35. 

It's splitting hairs to argue over the definition and context of better.

Edited by Second Base

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Second Base said:

The numbers don't lie. Chris Sale has been better than Gerrit Cole every single year, except last year. So if you're asking who the better pitcher is, it's Sale. If you ask who the better pitcher is right now, it's Cole. If you're asking who will be better in 5 years, I'd say with relative certainty I believe it will be Cole.

Okay, I see where our disconnect is. That’s not how I’d word it. If I say a given pitcher ‘is’ better, I’m thinking about right now, not career numbers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sean-Regan said:

Okay, I see where our disconnect is. That’s not how I’d word it. If I say a given pitcher ‘is’ better, I’m thinking about right now, not career numbers. 

Ok right now at this very moment, we can both agree that Gerrit Cole is likely the better pitcher. I'm about 85% sure of that. The only reason for the other 15% is just in case Cole is hurt from the mileage on his arm, or if Sale is completely healthy again and figures out why he sucked last year.

I think if Sale was a free agent this year, he'd probably get more than Wheeler. Maybe as much as Strasburg, but not as much as Cole. 

Right now, Gerrit Cole is in a class of his own, not only as a free agent but as a pitcher too. That doesn't happen very often, so it'll be interesting to see just how much he will get paid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Ha! You do realize typing something slower or faster makes no difference when you post it correct?

You do realize I was being facetious, correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this