How disappointed will you be if the Angels don't sign Gerrit Cole?

[Claude]

25 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m on the fence with Ohtani pitching once a week. If the Angels sign Cole ... why can’t Ohtani  be part of the regular rotation instead of being treated differently. He can still DH 2 or three times a week. 

Well I hope that he doesn’t turn into that only on Sunday or workload management guy where the rest of the rotation has to adjust around him. Like if we sign Cole and it’s his turn in the rotation to pitch and they tell him sorry it’s Shohei day. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

25 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Well I hope that he doesn’t turn into that only on Sunday or workload management guy where the rest of the rotation has to adjust around him. Like if we sign Cole and it’s his turn in the rotation to pitch and they tell him sorry it’s Shohei day. 

That's the least of my worries.

[Second Base]

There are so many different moving parts to this off-season. I have to imagine that if for some reason the Angels didn't sign Cole, they'll have signed three others that would help the team immensely, or that Cole will receive some ridiculous 300 million offer that the Angels would've been stupid to match. 

I'm honestly not too worried about Cole. My only concern, at least as it pertains to him, is that the Angels for some reason decide it's Cole or bust, and the market thins it and Cole signs elsewhere. Because at that point, Eppler will either make an idiotic trade out if desperation, or the Angels won't be competitive in 2020 and he'll get fired.

But I don't consider any of those scenarios likely.

- Cole is likely to hold up the entire pitching market. Guys like Strasburg, Wheeler, Ryu etc may end up waiting for Cole to sign so that the market can be set.

- Eppler will have a better idea of the market and has refused to sign players to money he finds unwise in the past, even if there's a present need. He was reportedly in on Corbin, Eovaldi and Keuchel and didn't bid past his comfort level on any of the three. The result was awful because Harvey and Cahill were trainwrecks, but the difference is that they were trainwrecks that only hurt the Angels for one year.

So Eppler doesn't strike me as the sorry that will act out of desperation. And while he only has a one year deal on his contract, this is there guy that negotiated Trout's extension, is almost solely responsible for Shohei Ohtani, brought in Andrelton Simmons, drafted Adell, Marsh and Canning, and had rebuilt the farm system. 

Joe Maddon also says he and Eppler will work together for at least 5 years.

So Cole is a want, but we'll be fine with it without because of our owner, GM, and manager. They'll figure it all out. But it won't matter anyway because Cole will sign with the Angels.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Calzone 2 said:

Three of the rotation guys he pitched with Richards, Tropeano and Skaggs are gone so nothing has been laid out with the 2020 rotation. Ohtani has 10 career MLB starts so he’s going to be on a pitch and innings limit. Then he has to let Albert DH. In reality, Ohtani is going to be a part time starting pitcher and a part time DH in 2020.

AP has zero bearing on this.  It's the desire to keep his bat in the lineup as much as possible that almost guarantees he will go once every 7 days regardless of what the other pitchers do..  Do the math on how often he'd hit if they keep having him sit the day before and after he pitches ....

It's the number 4 and 5 starters that get dinged by having Ohtani pitch on Sundays.

[ukyah]

3 hours ago, Rally Gorilla said:

For every Verlander and Scherzer, there are a lot more players like Scott Kasmir  (Who started out great and was out of baseball by age 27).   

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/2/25/5437902/pitching-aging-curves

 

 

luckily cole won't have to worry about washing out at 27.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

16 hours ago, NJHalo said:

Angels are more likely to sign Nat King Cole

Then they would have to start playing Ramblin' Rose instead of Buttercup.

I'm not sure that I want the Angels to spend the kind of money for a pitcher that is rumored to be the target price for Cole, and I damned sure don't want to get into a bidding war with the Yankees. Give him a seven- or eight-year deal and his arm flames out in year three, then what?

Better to bring in Justin Verlander. At least if he started to suck, we would get lots of shots of Kate Upton in the stands when he was pitching.

[Claude]

6 minutes ago, Vegas Halo Fan said:

Then they would have to start playing Ramblin' Rose instead of Buttercup.

I'm not sure that I want the Angels to spend the kind of money for a pitcher that is rumored to be the target price for Cole, and I damned sure don't want to get into a bidding war with the Yankees. Give him a seven- or eight-year deal and his arm flames out in year three, then what?

Better to bring in Justin Verlander. At least if he started to suck, we would get lots of shots of Kate Upton in the stands when he was pitching.

The Yankees won’t be involved in the Cole sweepstakes. They will actually make some really smart impact trades that will improve their roster and keep them within their approved budget. The Dodgers will re-sign Ryu and possibly sign Rendon. Cole will take the Angels money. 

[ScottT]

6 minutes ago, RBM said:

This is why I'd like to see Maddon have Ohtani DH the day after his starts. Sure, give him the day off before he starts but let him sit on the bench and have 4-5 AB's the day after a start.

It is not Maddon's call. 

[Pancake Bear]

2 hours ago, RBM said:

This is why I'd like to see Maddon have Ohtani DH the day after his starts. Sure, give him the day off before he starts but let him sit on the bench and have 4-5 AB's the day after a start.

 

2 hours ago, ScottT said:

It is not Maddon's call. 

Technically, the lineup card is Maddon's.

That said, I think the question of when Ohtani plays would have to be made in conjunction with the front office due to the limited nature of when he is able to DH.

As far as whether Maddon has the authority to say, "Nah, Shohei is good to go. Billy is just coddling him." That's...not happening. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

16 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Do the math on how often he'd hit if they keep having him sit the day before and after he pitches ....

It's the number 4 and 5 starters that get dinged by having Ohtani pitch on Sundays.

Instead of pitching every Sunday he should pitch every Wednesday or Friday. The majority of the off days next season will be on Thursday. Scheduling Ohtani to pitch on Friday will give him the day off before his starts. A day off from DH without costing him to miss a game. Hopefully after awhile they will allow him to DH after a start. That way he will only miss hitting on the days he pitches and Thursdays that aren't off days.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Rally Gorilla]

6 hours ago, calscuf said:

Let’s have some Scott Kazmir chat!

For the record, I’m pretty sure he came back and pitched a few more (decent) seasons after his disastrous ‘10 or ‘11 with the Angels.  Meaning, he wasn't “out of baseball at 27”.

My bad.   The article I was looking at talked about him being out of baseball at age 27.  He did not play for a year, but he did come back after the article was written and even had a couple of pretty good seasons before ending it at age 32.   Honest mistake.

 

[tdawg87]

7 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

The Yankees won’t be involved in the Cole sweepstakes. They will actually make some really smart impact trades that will improve their roster and keep them within their approved budget. The Dodgers will re-sign Ryu and possibly sign Rendon. Cole will take the Angels money. 

[Stradling]

I have no idea if the Yankees will be involved in Cole, they have a long tradition of big money contracts.  You only have to go back a couple years to when they traded for Stanton, who is probably their least popular player as proof.  They do not shy away from big contracts nor are they are immune to making a mistake.  It seems as though both Stanton and CC are at least suggesting the Yankees might consider it or should consider it.  Also my guess is ANY team that signs Cole, will be doing it inside the framework of that teams approved budget.  

[Claude]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I have no idea if the Yankees will be involved in Cole, they have a long tradition of big money contracts.  You only have to go back a couple years to when they traded for Stanton, who is probably their least popular player as proof.  They do not shy away from big contracts nor are they are immune to making a mistake.  It seems as though both Stanton and CC are at least suggesting the Yankees might consider it or should consider it.  Also my guess is ANY team that signs Cole, will be doing it inside the framework of that teams approved budget.  

What Sabathia and Stanton are saying will have zero impact on the Cole situation. Stanton just needs to STFU and do his job. The Yankees and the Dodgers have plenty of trade chips that they’ll both use to improve. They’ll both be going to the trade market this winter attempting to make salary exchanging type deals.

The Angels will have a surprisingly easy path to sign Cole. None of the usual suspects will get involved in the Cole market. I also believe that Cole will be financially cheaper than advertised. 

[failos]

7 hours ago, ScottT said:

It is not Maddon's call. 

Lol

[fan_since79]

18 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Stop we can't wait until Trout is 34 to contend. What if we wait til then and we still suck because we failed to go for it while we had the chance. l doubt we'll have a better crop of FA pitchers for a good long awhile.

Signing Cole is a win now and a win for the next 3 or 4 years a least...

It's a win-win. Not only do we get better, but some of the shine comes off Houston as well. At some point, depending on the rest of our roster upgrade, contending for the division title will be a real possibility.

[tdawg87]

16 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

It's a win-win. Not only do we get better, but some of the shine comes off Houston as well. At some point, depending on the rest of our roster upgrade, contending for the division title will be a real possibility.

Houston isn't in the best position themselves. I mean their roster is arguably the best in baseball, but their payroll even without Cole is over $200 million. Verlander is 37, Greinke is 36. Correa is a free agent in 2 years. 

Their reign is ending.

[Second Base]

I know everyone thinks the Yankees will be involved in Gerrit Cole, pretty much every commenter on MLBTR says, "Yeah but the Yankees...." (Don't worry, I don't comment over there, but I am entertained and fascinated by how much people dislike the Angels).

But I also think people that keep referencing the Yankees are showing their own ignorance.

Their payroll is at 195 million after arbitration, but after players raises, minor league contacts, deferments, they are only 1.5 million under the luxury tax. They need one starting pitcher, maybe two, but have no untaxed money to spend.

Because this will be their third consecutive year above the tax thread, the eve taxes 30% of every dollar they spend. Meaning if Gerrit Cole earns 35 million a year as some believe he might, the Yankees will be paying him 45.5 million because of the tax penalties.

Combined with their expressed desire to drop below the tax thread one every 3-5 years to reset the penalties and not have them reach the 50% tax level (in which case Gerrit Cole would cost them over 50 million a year), does any one here believe that would be even remotely possible if they signed Gerrit Cole?

The Yankees won't sign Gerrit Cole. They will be connected through the media because it makes a good story but the Yankees have a snow balls chance in the land of the doomed in getting him and getting their finances properly aligned.

They'll trade for starting pitching, using Clint Frazier and Estevan Florial as their main bargaining chips, neither of which have room on their roster.

[Claude]

19 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I know everyone thinks the Yankees will be involved in Gerrit Cole, pretty much every commenter on MLBTR says, "Yeah but the Yankees...." (Don't worry, I don't comment over there, but I am entertained and fascinated by how much people dislike the Angels).

But I also think people that keep referencing the Yankees are showing their own ignorance.

Their payroll is at 195 million after arbitration, but after players raises, minor league contacts, deferments, they are only 1.5 million under the luxury tax. They need one starting pitcher, maybe two, but have no untaxed money to spend.

Because this will be their third consecutive year above the tax thread, the eve taxes 30% of every dollar they spend. Meaning if Gerrit Cole earns 35 million a year as some believe he might, the Yankees will be paying him 45.5 million because of the tax penalties.

Combined with their expressed desire to drop below the tax thread one every 3-5 years to reset the penalties and not have them reach the 50% tax level (in which case Gerrit Cole would cost them over 50 million a year), does any one here believe that would be even remotely possible if they signed Gerrit Cole?

The Yankees won't sign Gerrit Cole. They will be connected through the media because it makes a good story but the Yankees have a snow balls chance in the land of the doomed in getting him and getting their finances properly aligned.

They'll trade for starting pitching, using Clint Frazier and Estevan Florial as their main bargaining chips, neither of which have room on their roster.

Spot on 100%

[Second Base]

The teams that will have a need, be in a competitive position and have the financial clout to sign Gerrit Cole are pretty limited. 

1. Angels - Grew up an Angels fan, they have a need and the money to spend. The only down part would be that they're coming off multiple losing seasons. 

2. Dodgers - Their need isn't dire, and becomes almost non-existent if they bring back Ryu. The Dodgers don't spend their money on free agent pitching like most large market teams. They use it to develop and extend their current stars, which is smart. But they are So-Cal, and will be competitive.

3. Twins - Huge need and deep pockets. No connections with Cole, but he'd get paid and pitch for a highly competitive franchise which is always attractive. Having said that, because they need at least for starting pitchers, it becomes highly unlikely they'll spend their available cash on one and scrounge on the others.

4. White Sox - Like the Twins, except they have zero history of handing out contacts of this magnitude, and aren't quite as competitive, and have multiple ordinary needs on offense and defense.

5. Phillies - There is a need, they have money to spend and figure to be in the mix for the playoffs year in and year out.

As we all can see, there is enough competition to drive his price into the stratosphere. But when it comes down to it, the Dodgers, Twins and White Sox won't be there. 

Like with Trout, this is simply going to come down to the Angels vs Phillies. The Angels are  home, have Trout and Ohtani, offer a more laid back setting than the East Coast, and have a personal history with Cole, the Phillies offer the relief of separation from home, have Bryce Harper and a loud and dedicated fan base that will make every game feel like a playoff game. Both teams will surround him with talent.

I think it will be the Angels.

[Erstad Grit]

23 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I know everyone thinks the Yankees will be involved in Gerrit Cole, pretty much every commenter on MLBTR says, "Yeah but the Yankees...." (Don't worry, I don't comment over there, but I am entertained and fascinated by how much people dislike the Angels).

But I also think people that keep referencing the Yankees are showing their own ignorance.

Their payroll is at 195 million after arbitration, but after players raises, minor league contacts, deferments, they are only 1.5 million under the luxury tax. They need one starting pitcher, maybe two, but have no untaxed money to spend.

Because this will be their third consecutive year above the tax thread, the eve taxes 30% of every dollar they spend. Meaning if Gerrit Cole earns 35 million a year as some believe he might, the Yankees will be paying him 45.5 million because of the tax penalties.

Combined with their expressed desire to drop below the tax thread one every 3-5 years to reset the penalties and not have them reach the 50% tax level (in which case Gerrit Cole would cost them over 50 million a year), does any one here believe that would be even remotely possible if they signed Gerrit Cole?

The Yankees won't sign Gerrit Cole. They will be connected through the media because it makes a good story but the Yankees have a snow balls chance in the land of the doomed in getting him and getting their finances properly aligned.

They'll trade for starting pitching, using Clint Frazier and Estevan Florial as their main bargaining chips, neither of which have room on their roster.

Yes. But Boras will do all he can to make owners think yanks are in. 

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

What Sabathia and Stanton are saying will have zero impact on the Cole situation. Stanton just needs to STFU and do his job. The Yankees and the Dodgers have plenty of trade chips that they’ll both use to improve. They’ll both be going to the trade market this winter attempting to make salary exchanging type deals.

The Angels will have a surprisingly easy path to sign Cole. None of the usual suspects will get involved in the Cole market. I also believe that Cole will be financially cheaper than advertised. 

I agree with basically all of this.  The Dodgers are said to be interested in Rendon and you have mentioned him as well as possibly going to the Dodgers.  If they are in the market for Rendon then they obviously could be in the market for Cole.  It is a helluva lot easier to go grab a third baseman without the financial commitment Rendon will get than it is to get an Ace without paying top dollar for one.  They could use a couple of pieces from their minor leagues and get Bryant who is said to be on the block rather than sign a $300 million 3rd baseman.  

My point with CC and Stanton is they have their finger on the pulse of what the Yankees could do a lot better than either of us.  

As far as the usual suspects it doesn’t have to be the Dodgers or the Yankees or the Red Sox anymore.  It has to be one owner who wants an anchor to his staff that feels his team can compete in the next few years.  So teams on that list are the Rangers, the Phillies, the Padres, the White Sox (who I think we probably provide the largest offer) or even a team like the Blue Jays.  Would you really be surprised if the Nats signed Cole if they lost both Strasburg and Rendon?  The Padres are the perfect example of it doesn’t have to be one of the big guns anymore as they gave $300 million for Manny and before the off season began there was no indication they would be involved.  

[Second Base]

So narrowing it down to the Angels, Phillies and Twins, I'm just looking at payroll, and while the Twins are typically around 120 million, they've expressed the ability to go higher if necessary. If we are optimistic and call it 140, they also have to figure on spending too keep Sano, Kepler, Buxton and Rosario around. 

They probably have like 50 million to spend and need for pitchers. This becomes almost impossible with Gerrit Cole.

The Phillies are at 155 million, and have expressed confidence in going in the 180+ range if necessary. Their two big needs are 3B and SP. They can go either direction.

This honestly might be only the Angels.

[tdawg87]

Watch it be Colorado for some weird reason.

[fan_since79]

The Phillies have an unforgiving fan base that will turn on you in a hurry if you fail to produce. He may want to consider that in making his decision.