How disappointed will you be if the Angels don't sign Gerrit Cole?

[floplag]

39 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Isn't that the logic that cost us Nolan Ryan?

While i see the point of the argument, i dont agree.  One was our own, this is a free agent and the situation isnt exactly the same either.
We have 50-60M total to spend, and need 2 arms and maybe a bat.  giving 35 of that to one guy seems, illogical, unless you can get the other parts for way less.
Is the team better with Cole, Wheeler and the existing offense or Wheeler, Odorizzi, and Grandal for example?  If we go north of 30 for Cole, we can forget any impact bat, that seems clear. 
Dont get me wrong i want to get him, im just not sure i want to go over 30M to do it, for me thats about the limit, and i dont think it will be enough 
 

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

And Greinke $25 million a year for the next two years. 

My honest opinion but go ahead and shoot. Cole wasn’t as good in Pittsburgh as he was in Houston. Maybe he gradually just got better.  

Did it help Cole to pitch on a team with a top notched offense that gave him 5.9 runs per game in runs support? 

Did it help to have the number 1 and number 3 ranked defense behind him the past two seasons? 

I’m certainly not discounting the tremendous pitching that he’s provided and his workhorse mentality. He’s been amazing. We are not Houston so my biggest fear is that we give him some sick crazy money like 8/280M and he quickly gets back on his Pirates ship. 

blast away......

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Calzone 2 said:

My honest opinion but go ahead and shoot. Cole wasn’t as good in Pittsburgh as he was in Houston. Maybe he gradually just got better.  

Did it help Cole to pitch on a team with a top notched offense that gave him 5.9 runs per game in runs support? 

Did it help to have the number 1 and number 3 ranked defense behind him the past two seasons? 

I’m certainly not discounting the tremendous pitching that he’s provided and his workhorse mentality. He’s been amazing. We are not Houston so my biggest fear is that we give him some sick crazy money like 8/280M and he quickly gets back on his Pirates ship. 

blast away......

Lol

[failos]

10 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

My honest opinion but go ahead and shoot. Cole wasn’t as good in Pittsburgh as he was in Houston. Maybe he gradually just got better.  

Did it help Cole to pitch on a team with a top notched offense that gave him 5.9 runs per game in runs support? 

Did it help to have the number 1 and number 3 ranked defense behind him the past two seasons? 

I’m certainly not discounting the tremendous pitching that he’s provided and his workhorse mentality. He’s been amazing. We are not Houston so my biggest fear is that we give him some sick crazy money like 8/280M and he quickly gets back on his Pirates ship. 

blast away......

The Astros’ offense had nothing to do with Cole’s success as a SP. he barely gave up any runs to begin with

[Troll Daddy]

A little disappointed ... not enough to lose any sleep over it

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Then why wasn’t he nearly as good in Pittsburgh? Why was he a #3 level pitcher in 2016 and a #4 in 2017? These are good questions to ask. 

We already know why. It isn’t like these things can’t be analyzed. 

[failos]

4 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Then why wasn’t he nearly as good in Pittsburgh? Why was he a #3 level pitcher in 2016 and a #4 in 2017? These are good questions to ask. 

Same reason why any other pitchers improve as they age.

[Stradling]

Blast away?  Ok he matured as a pitcher.  If you need to pretend he is this good because of their offense, go right ahead.  I will live in the real world that shows he has dominant stuff that he has learned to harness with proper coaching.  

As far as turning 30 in year one of his deal, big fucking deal.  He is going into his year 29 season as he turns 30 late next year.  Power pitchers like him don’t age the same as guys who don’t throw 100.  Also look at the number of innings he has pitched, he hasn’t been overworked and thus should perform well into his 30’s.  

I fully understand I am responding to two guys who would prefer the Angels suck because it allows them to spout their negative bullshit, but Cole isn’t the place to do that.  

Stay in your lane and bitch about Arte and the city of Anaheim or whether or not aliens live amongst us.  

[failos]

@Vladdylonglegs @Calzone 2 are you guys worried Cole will regress to Jordan Zimmermann levels?

[Stradling]

Absolutely yes.  You said people won’t worry about his future contract if he’s great with us, yet the same day you asked if Trout will be worth $35 million when he’s 35 years old.  You are incapable of being close to objective with this type of thing because you think they should have traded Trout instead of giving him an extension.  

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Absolutely yes.  You said people won’t worry about his future contract if he’s great with us, yet the same day you asked if Trout will be worth $35 million when he’s 35 years old.  You are incapable of being close to objective with this type of thing because you think they should have traded Trout instead of giving him an extension.  

Enjoy your trollvote!

[ScottT]

3 hours ago, wopphil said:

As for a non-Cole offseason, what if it went something like this:

Wheeler - 5/100 (16 first year)

Odorizzi - 4/56 (12 first year)

Donaldson - 3/66 (20 first year)

Grandal - 4/56 (12 first year)

That's a huge offseason with 60 mil in new money for 2020, which is potentially doable.

Getting four of the top free agents seems like a big time longshot. Other teams want those guys.  Nearly every team can afford them.  Plus, they all have to want to come here.... since you are not blowing them away with those deals

[Chuck]

Verlander and Scherzer are 36 and they're still dominating the league with ace type stuff. 

[Stradling]

You’re right you asked if Trout would be worth $35 million at 38 years old, my bad. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Chuckster70 said:

Verlander and Scherzer are 36 and they're still dominating the league with ace type stuff. 

Yep.  Scherer has had 7 great seasons since his age 29 season. 

[Pancake Bear]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yep.  Scherer has had 7 great seasons since his age 29 season. 

If we signed Cole and he went off like Scherzer, we’d be incredibly lucky. That’s about as good as a long term contract can go. But Verlander, Greinke, Scherzer - they’ve all aged pretty well so far. Not impossible or even necessarily unlikely that Cole will do the same. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Sean-Regan said:

If we signed Cole and he went off like Scherzer, we’d be incredibly lucky. That’s about as good as a long term contract can go. But Verlander, Greinke, Scherzer - they’ve all aged pretty well so far. Not impossible or even necessarily unlikely that Cole will do the same. 

Right.  But I think it’s entirely possibly you can get 3 elite years, 3 good years and a year or two of average years. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, floplag said:

While i see the point of the argument, i dont agree.  One was our own, this is a free agent and the situation isnt exactly the same either.
We have 50-60M total to spend, and need 2 arms and maybe a bat.  giving 35 of that to one guy seems, illogical, unless you can get the other parts for way less.
Is the team better with Cole, Wheeler and the existing offense or Wheeler, Odorizzi, and Grandal for example?  If we go north of 30 for Cole, we can forget any impact bat, that seems clear. 
Dont get me wrong i want to get him, im just not sure i want to go over 30M to do it, for me thats about the limit, and i dont think it will be enough 
 

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2019/11/6/20951194/an-early-analysis-of-the-astros-2020-payroll-situation-gerrit-cole

We don't need another bat, we could use a defense first catcher; Maldonado will do. Plus I think we have perhaps a little more than think to spend, now that we left Calhoun go. Our payroll is around $136M + ~$7M more to spend on per-arbitration players.

I have to think Cole is going to be our main target in FA. Going after a 3B is not in the cards I'm afraid. I think we will go with Fletcher, Simmons, and La Stella, with Pujols and Thais at 1B. We will get some salary relief next season after losing Cozart and Pujols the year after that.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

7 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Could happen. Which is why his contract would only be worth it if playing for a team currently competing for championships. The Angels are not even close. 
 

Signing Cole is a win now move and a win now move only. The Angels have a shot to be a playoff team in 3-4 years if they are smart and avoid tying up future payroll. 

Stop we can't wait until Trout is 34 to contend. What if we wait til then and we still suck because we failed to go for it while we had the chance. l doubt we'll have a better crop of FA pitchers for a good long awhile.

Signing Cole is a win now and a win for the next 3 or 4 years a least...

Edited November 9, 2019 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[tdawg87]

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

https://www.crawfishboxes.com/2019/11/6/20951194/an-early-analysis-of-the-astros-2020-payroll-situation-gerrit-cole

We don't need another bat, we could use a defense first catcher; Maldonado will do. Plus I think we have perhaps a little more than think to spend, now that we left Calhoun go. Our payroll is around $136M + ~$7M more to spend on per-arbitration players.

I have to think Cole is going to be our main target in FA. Going after a 3B is not in the cards I'm afraid. I think we will go with Fletcher, Simmons, and La Stella, with Pujols and Thais at 1B. We will get some salary relief next season after losing Cozart and Pujols the year after that.

We can agree to disagree on the bat.  Even if we get Cole we still have to get better the other 4 days hes not pitching.    
As to where we are The math has been done, many times as to where we are, the question is where will we go and none of us knows that.  Best estimates say we will add 50-60 on top of current, but those are, guesses.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

26 minutes ago, floplag said:

We can agree to disagree on the bat.  Even if we get Cole we still have to get better the other 4 days hes not pitching.    
As to where we are The math has been done, many times as to where we are, the question is where will we go and none of us knows that.  Best estimates say we will add 50-60 on top of current, but those are, guesses.

Joe Adell will join the Angels sometime early in 2020 I'm thinking. A full season of a healthy Upton and La Stella should also help with offense situation. So Trout, Upton, Ohtani, La Stella, and Pujols should provide power, Fletcher has shown an amazing talent of hitting the ball and avoiding SO, and Simmons can return to 2017/2018 form, our line-up should be pretty potent.

As far as the rotation goes I'm sure that Eppler is planning on getting at least a second tier pitcher to go with Cole. That with the return of Ohtani to the mound on Sunday's, and Heaney and Canning to fill the last 2 spots. On the occasions we need a 6th starter we can bring Sandoval, Barria, and/or Sanchez. So we just don't have the money to spend  on a big bat 3B, and everything I've says the Angels aren't in the market for a position player unless it a relatively cheap defensive catcher.

[Troll Daddy]

I’m on the fence with Ohtani pitching once a week. If the Angels sign Cole ... why can’t Ohtani  be part of the regular rotation instead of being treated differently. He can still DH 2 or three times a week. 

[Stradling]

15 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’m on the fence with Ohtani pitching once a week. If the Angels sign Cole ... why can’t Ohtani  be part of the regular rotation instead of being treated differently. He can still DH 2 or three times a week. 

My opinion is this isn’t the season to tinker with that.  Let him prove he is healthy before you change his routine especially coming back from TJ surgery.  

 

[Rally Gorilla]

4 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Verlander and Scherzer are 36 and they're still dominating the league with ace type stuff. 

For every Verlander and Scherzer, there are a lot more players like Scott Kasmir  (Who started out great and was out of baseball by age 27).   

https://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2014/2/25/5437902/pitching-aging-curves