Sign in to follow this  
Sean-Regan

Castellanos?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

That’s the point I’m trying to raise though too...what if it’s not a given? Obviously they’re going to have to spend some, let’s say Cole, and they might have a lot to work with, rounding out lesser needs, let’s presume one-year vet SP, a bench bat, a cheap catcher, but part of the solution could just as easily be trading for a piece or two that’s affordable, such as a good, young arm, someone able to contribute in ‘20 (unlike Marsh) instead of spending money on that mid-tier pitching.

A scenario - we all know Cole is almost undoubtedly the top target, and the Angels still need another arm following. 
What's next? Say they've set aside something like Nate Eovaldi money for their second arm - 4/$68m - and identified Zack Wheeler, Madison Bumgarner, and Jake Odorizzi as the three guys they really like for that second arm. 
Problem is, Wheeler is now looking like a really hot commodity, and 4/$68m is looking increasingly unlikely, and Eppler isn't comfortable going much more than that. 
Bumgarner is emerging as a Braves priority - they have need, they have money, Bumgarner likes to hit, Bumgarner grew up a Braves fan - leading Eppler to think that they might not be favorites there. 
Odorizzi wound up receiving a QO, and while they likely weren't planning on spending something like 4/$68m on him, the fact that he has draft pick compensation on him now makes his far less desirable. 

Meanwhile, Castellanos' contract projections have him landing around...4/$68m.
Brandon Marsh had a red-hot fall that boosted his value. Maybe now teams are a lot more interested in him being the centerpiece in a deal for a good, young, controllable arm.
Rosters expand to 26, Pujols' new role can be DH/PH/1B - it's always been stated he'd sit more if there was a better bat ahead of him, and well, Castellanos would be that. 

It's simply trading places. Instead of the Angels sinking ~$70m into an arm, they sink it into a bat. 
Instead of getting 6 years of cost-controlled Marsh, they get an affordable impact arm. 

Keep in mind, Marsh likely isn't getting everyday playing time until the 2022 season at the earliest.
Those club-controlled value years are really helpful in 2022, 2023, 2024, yes, but that same trade value could help the 2020 payroll right now, which is a more pressing need as it's already tight and expecting to be the highest ever. 

Remember too, the Angels could have a really, really good, cheap, cost-controlled rotation in a couple seasons. It could be Cole, Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval, Suarez, Soriano, Yan. 
Fletcher, Thaiss, Rengifo could be a bulk of a cheap, everyday IF. The need to have a super cheap OF isn't as great, especially with more help scheduled to also land around the time Upton is done.
Adams could breakout next year and be close to ready around the same time Marsh would be moving into an everyday role. Knowles and Deveaux are further off, but a breakout season from either of them could move them up the charts quickly, especially as both hit Rule 5 eligibility before Adams, and only one year after Marsh.
 

Love this piece but i've got a few things:
Wheeler, Bumgarner and Wheeler all have QO's so if they're worried about that with Odorizzi then they'd be worried about that with Wheeler/Bumgarner as well.
Also, we'd have to assume Wheeler/Bumgarner would get interest from other teams so of could price goes up. That's how you win.

I like what you're saying with trading Marsh and other pieces for an affordable impact arm. Marsh with other pieces can line up with Mike Clevinger, but it'd have to be a good arm. Not someone that has potential in the future if we are talking about winning next year. 

Believing Sandoval, Suarez, Soriano and Yan will all reach potential is a far stretch. Realistically I only see Canning, Soriano and Sandoval becoming legit rotation pieces. Yan will be in bullpen and Suarez won't.

Rotation of: Cole, Clevinger, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Sandoval might work, but I think another solid pieces is needed for deep playoff runs. They need a Wheeler/Bumgarner to really make that push still.
Rotation for playoff push: Cole, Clevinger, Wheeler, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning.
lineup of: Fletcher, Castellanos, Trout, Ohtani, Upton, Simmons, Adell, LaStella, Sassi is a step up, but pitching is most crucial. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, True Grich said:

He made $9.9 million last year.  He's looking for an increase.

He hasn't played 3B since 2017 and he's never played 1B.

He's basically one dimensional as a defensive player.  AND he's going to cost a fair amount.

Mike Trout isn't getting any younger.  This team needs pitching now and they don't need another OF right now that everyone "hopes" can play 3B and 1B as well.

I am NOT thinking of "sick lineups."  I'm thinking about how crappy the pitching has been.

This team needs pitching, but it also has other needs.  If we do nothing but get pitching it doesnt solve all the issues.  Ive no issue with them looking at offensive items, but this one just doesnt scream need or priority to me unless were really planning to go ham.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, floplag said:

This team needs pitching, but it also has other needs.  If we do nothing but get pitching it doesnt solve all the issues.  Ive no issue with them looking at offensive items, but this one just doesnt scream need or priority to me unless were really planning to go ham.

I'd prefer they spend money on a catcher and not Castellanos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Love this piece but i've got a few things:
Wheeler, Bumgarner and Wheeler all have QO's so if they're worried about that with Odorizzi then they'd be worried about that with Wheeler/Bumgarner as well.
Also, we'd have to assume Wheeler/Bumgarner would get interest from other teams so of could price goes up. That's how you win.

I like what you're saying with trading Marsh and other pieces for an affordable impact arm. Marsh with other pieces can line up with Mike Clevinger, but it'd have to be a good arm. Not someone that has potential in the future if we are talking about winning next year. 

Believing Sandoval, Suarez, Soriano and Yan will all reach potential is a far stretch. Realistically I only see Canning, Soriano and Sandoval becoming legit rotation pieces. Yan will be in bullpen and Suarez won't.

Rotation of: Cole, Clevinger, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, Sandoval might work, but I think another solid pieces is needed for deep playoff runs. They need a Wheeler/Bumgarner to really make that push still.
Rotation for playoff push: Cole, Clevinger, Wheeler, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning.
lineup of: Fletcher, Castellanos, Trout, Ohtani, Upton, Simmons, Adell, LaStella, Sassi is a step up, but pitching is most crucial. 

Arguably, Bumgarner and Wheeler are 'worth' losing a pick. Odorizzi is a bit more of a stretch, especially if receiving a $17.5m QO gives him and his agent the impression he's worth something comparable annually. 
Odorizzi at 3/$42m with no pick is alright. Odorizzi at 3/$33m losing a pick is good. Odorizzi expecting to get something like 3-4 at $17m/$18m AAV while losing a pick is awful, IMO - and while he might not get that, the Angels might see something like the Keuchel situation repeating, where player and agent hold out hope all winter for a big contract that never comes, a situation the Angels can't really afford to wait on....at least not out of the gate. 

It seems to already be a stretch that the Angels could afford Cole and one of the top arms after him. Not impossible, but not likely. Adding Castellanos to that seems beyond realistic. 
In my mind, it would be more along the lines of Cole, signing a Castellanos/Moustakas-type, signing some cheap/one-year SP help, and then trading offensive prospects for an arm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Arguably, Bumgarner and Wheeler are 'worth' losing a pick. Odorizzi is a bit more of a stretch, especially if receiving a $17.5m QO gives him and his agent the impression he's worth something comparable annually. 
Odorizzi at 3/$42m with no pick is alright. Odorizzi at 3/$33m losing a pick is good. Odorizzi expecting to get something like 3-4 at $17m/$18m AAV while losing a pick is awful, IMO - and while he might not get that, the Angels might see something like the Keuchel situation repeating, where player and agent hold out hope all winter for a big contract that never comes, a situation the Angels can't really afford to wait on....at least not out of the gate. 

It seems to already be a stretch that the Angels could afford Cole and one of the top arms after him. Not impossible, but not likely. Adding Castellanos to that seems beyond realistic. 
In my mind, it would be more along the lines of Cole, signing a Castellanos/Moustakas-type, signing some cheap/one-year SP help, and then trading offensive prospects for an arm. 

I just worry about that arm you're trading for. If you're trading away Marsh, who's raised his value, then it should be a good pitcher. I know he and a package would work for Clevinger so I'd be okay with that. Clevinger will make around $4.5M this year which is a great add for the Angels financially. We need for sure 2 good arms. Not Cole and some #5 guy to fill the rotation. Two starters that fit into the #1 and #2 spots will get it going and I'd be okay with Cole/Clevinger. 
Open payroll to $190M; current payroll at $146M:
Cole: $25M (backloaded)
Castellanos: $15M (slightly backloaded)
Clevinger: $4.5M
Payroll at $190.5M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Not Cole and some #5 guy to fill the rotation.

That isn't what I suggested though...I suggested signing Cole and a #4-5 guy, someone more along the lines of depth/insurance, and then trading for someone comparable to a Wheeler/Odorizzi/Clevinger/Heaney/etc., and using that Wheeler money for a bat to replace the offense from whomever was dealt. 

Also, why would Cleveland trade Clevinger? If anyone's going, it's Kluber.

The trade candidate stable for a #2-3, or a #4 with upside, is a really broad spectrum. Darvish, Price, Kluber, Boyd, Syndergaard, Gray, Quintana, Hendricks, Stroman, Ray, Minor, Lynn, Newcomb, Archer, Mikolas. Some will cost a lot, some much less. Some will come with big salary commitments, some won't. It's real hard to speculate until we get additional info. 

That's why, until some pieces fall, there will exist the option of trading for a second arm and potentially signing a hitter to replenish what's dealt. It's not an argument for it, it's not an indicator of likeliness, just simply an open door until other pieces make it close or open further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That isn't what I suggested though...I suggested signing Cole and a #4-5 guy, someone more along the lines of depth/insurance, and then trading for someone comparable to a Wheeler/Odorizzi/Clevinger/Heaney/etc., and using that Wheeler money for a bat to replace the offense from whomever was dealt. 

Also, why would Cleveland trade Clevinger? If anyone's going, it's Kluber.

The trade candidate stable for a #2-3, or a #4 with upside, is a really broad spectrum. Darvish, Price, Kluber, Boyd, Syndergaard, Gray, Quintana, Hendricks, Stroman, Ray, Minor, Lynn, Newcomb, Archer, Mikolas. Some will cost a lot, some much less. Some will come with big salary commitments, some won't. It's real hard to speculate until we get additional info. 

That's why, until some pieces fall, there will exist the option of trading for a second arm and potentially signing a hitter to replenish what's dealt. It's not an argument for it, it's not an indicator of likeliness, just simply an open door until other pieces make it close or open further.

They picked up their option on Kluber, i think they still want to keep him... although could still trade him but i suspect thats an in season move if anything.  Bauer on the other hand i think they are dying to deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Signing Castellanos would work, only if:

1) They strike out on signing a second really good pitcher to go with Cole, and instead sign an innings eater.

2) Pujols can accept a part-time role (say 80 games), so that Castellanos can play some 140 games between 1B and DH.  

3) They strike out on signing a rock solid catcher, and instead sign someone like Machete for his defense and pitcher handling. 

 

Addendum on people's thoughts of trading Marsh:  Without him, who's going to supply LHH eventually?    Thaiss and Rengifo are now likely the only LHHs going forward after 2020 (assuming Stella signing elsewhere then).  

Edited by Angel Oracle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, floplag said:

They picked up their option on Kluber, i think they still want to keep him... although could still trade him but i suspect thats an in season move if anything.  Bauer on the other hand i think they are dying to deal. 

They can absolutely trade him still, to clear up salary. 

And they traded Bauer last summer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That isn't what I suggested though...I suggested signing Cole and a #4-5 guy, someone more along the lines of depth/insurance, and then trading for someone comparable to a Wheeler/Odorizzi/Clevinger/Heaney/etc., and using that Wheeler money for a bat to replace the offense from whomever was dealt. 

Also, why would Cleveland trade Clevinger? If anyone's going, it's Kluber.

The trade candidate stable for a #2-3, or a #4 with upside, is a really broad spectrum. Darvish, Price, Kluber, Boyd, Syndergaard, Gray, Quintana, Hendricks, Stroman, Ray, Minor, Lynn, Newcomb, Archer, Mikolas. Some will cost a lot, some much less. Some will come with big salary commitments, some won't. It's real hard to speculate until we get additional info. 

That's why, until some pieces fall, there will exist the option of trading for a second arm and potentially signing a hitter to replenish what's dealt. It's not an argument for it, it's not an indicator of likeliness, just simply an open door until other pieces make it close or open further.

The Angels won't have salary room for Cole, Castellanos, #4-#5 guy and then trade for a #2 or #3. 
Cole and Castellanos alone would put us around $190M. You'd have to trade a serious piece on our side to clear room. Upton, Pujols, Cozart, all either have NTC or 0 value. Simmons is the only option, which i'm not against, but then depth takes a hit. LaStella is only making around $2.9M so that's no relief. If Kluber was the option then we'd probably have to give up way to much for them to eat a big chunk of his contract. That goes for the majority of the guys like Darvish, Price, Thor, Hendricks, Stroman, Ray....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Signing Castellanos would work, only if:

1) They strike out on signing a second really good pitcher to go with Cole, and instead sign an innings eater.

2) Pujols can accept a part-time role (say 80 games), so that Castellanos can play some 140 games between 1B and DH.  

3) They strike out on signing a rock solid catcher, and instead sign someone like Machete for his defense and pitcher handling. 

If Pujols accepts it or not it won't matter. He can't control his playing time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, floplag said:

They picked up their option on Kluber, i think they still want to keep him... although could still trade him but i suspect thats an in season move if anything.  Bauer on the other hand i think they are dying to deal. 

They already traded Bauer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just can't possibly justify spending money on Castellanos.  We can use it for a SP, or Grandal (who is projected to earn around the same), etc.  Even if we can't sign players for that money, save it, and use it next year instead.  A 4 year deal for Castellanos sounds like a disaster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

The Angels won't have salary room for Cole, Castellanos, #4-#5 guy and then trade for a #2 or #3. 
Cole and Castellanos alone would put us around $190M. You'd have to trade a serious piece on our side to clear room. Upton, Pujols, Cozart, all either have NTC or 0 value. Simmons is the only option, which i'm not against, but then depth takes a hit. LaStella is only making around $2.9M so that's no relief. If Kluber was the option then we'd probably have to give up way to much for them to eat a big chunk of his contract. That goes for the majority of the guys like Darvish, Price, Thor, Hendricks, Stroman, Ray....

The Angels are at ~$145m.

  1. Let's say Cole is $35m AAV, Castellanos is $17m AAV - without an restructuring, thats $197m
    • Both are back-loaded - $25m for Cole in '20, $12m for Castellanos in '20, saving $15m in actual 2020 payroll.
    • This puts the Angels at $182m for '20. 
       
  2. They target a #2-#3 SP in a trade built around, but not necessarily requiring, Marsh.
    • Here are a few mid-range targets and their salaries (incl. arb projections) from cheapest to most expensive. 
      • Cal Quantrill, other MLB-ready SP prospects: league-minimum, almost certainly require Marsh, leaves payroll wide open for other needs. 
      • Dinelson Lamet: $2m - very cheap, not proven
      • Jose Urena: $4m - likely more of a #4-#5, but hints of upside.
      • Vince Velasquez: $4m - Philly unlikely to trade given their needs., but could be motivated if a SP prospect was involved and they were signing other FA SPs
      • Clevinger: $4.5m - can't imagine he's actually available 
      • Steven Matz: $5m - Mets likely to hold off
      • Matthew Boyd $6.5m - all things considered, a good target. Which half was fluke, first or second? Aside from a second half stretch of HR allowed, the peripherals suggest good things.
      • Dylan Bundy: $6m - cheapest to acquire, plenty of risk 
      • Mike Minor: $10m - damn good pitcher, will cost a good bit, only one year of control can be good or bad 
      • Noah Syndergaard $10m - doesn't seem to get along with Callaway much 
      • Robbie Ray: $11m - price in prospects and salary is tough for Angels, but talent is clear, extension candidate could bring '20 payroll down
      • Lance Lynn: $11.3m - salary is high, but Texas could be open to taking back minimal salary contributions (see below) as part of return value
      • Jose Quintana: $11.5m - same as above, as Cubs have need at infield, outfield, and bullpen 
      • Kyle Hendricks: $12m - same as above
      • Marcus Stroman $12m - salary is awfully high, probably too much so for the Angels to really consider him
      • Yu Darvish: $22m - it'd blow past Angels budget, but the length of contract opens the door for the Cubs to eat salary or take back Cozart as a way to help the Angels '20 payroll
      • David Price: $32m - Maddon favorite, same concept re: Cozart - no other money involved, Angels payroll would be at $202m after Cole, Castellanos, and Price, less Cozart. Pretty much no room for anything else, but three huge adds.
        • There are varying scenarios where La Stella ($3m), Goodwin ($2m), Heaney ($5m), Bedrosian ($3m) could be worked into a deal as well, if the Halos really need to save a few mil and the other team is interested. 
           
  3. When I say #4 or #5, I'm looking at bottom of the barrel types. The guys like Gio and Miley last year who signed for ~$3m, basically an amount that's negligible against payroll. 
  4. Signing Andrelton Simmons to a contract extension could free up a couple more million. He's slated for $15m. They could renegotiate his deal and back-load it as well, to save a few million. 
  5. Castellanos could presumably make La Stella or Goodwin expendable - they could be dealt for marginal SP help, relief help, a decent vet catcher, or for a less-exciting but still solid prospect to replace whomever is dealt for a #2-3 type arm. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, wopphil said:

Admit it: we all cringed at seeing the thread title, and a day later we are all coming around to this possibility and thinking of the potential sick lineups.

I wouldn't say we are ALL coming around to the idea of adding CastellaNO 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, totdprods said:

They can absolutely trade him still, to clear up salary. 

And they traded Bauer last summer.

 

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They already traded Bauer

i had forgotten about that somehow... thanks for the reminder.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, totdprods said:

The Angels are at ~$145m.

  1. Let's say Cole is $35m AAV, Castellanos is $17m AAV - without an restructuring, thats $197m
    • Both are back-loaded - $25m for Cole in '20, $12m for Castellanos in '20, saving $15m in actual 2020 payroll.
    • This puts the Angels at $182m for '20. 
       
  2. They target a #2-#3 SP in a trade built around, but not necessarily requiring, Marsh.
    • Here are a few mid-range targets and their salaries (incl. arb projections) from cheapest to most expensive. 
      • Cal Quantrill, other MLB-ready SP prospects: league-minimum, almost certainly require Marsh, leaves payroll wide open for other needs. 
      • Dinelson Lamet: $2m - very cheap, not proven
      • Jose Urena: $4m - likely more of a #4-#5, but hints of upside.
      • Vince Velasquez: $4m - Philly unlikely to trade given their needs., but could be motivated if a SP prospect was involved and they were signing other FA SPs
      • Clevinger: $4.5m - can't imagine he's actually available 
      • Steven Matz: $5m - Mets likely to hold off
      • Matthew Boyd $6.5m - all things considered, a good target. Which half was fluke, first or second? Aside from a second half stretch of HR allowed, the peripherals suggest good things.
      • Dylan Bundy: $6m - cheapest to acquire, plenty of risk 
      • Mike Minor: $10m - damn good pitcher, will cost a good bit, only one year of control can be good or bad 
      • Noah Syndergaard $10m - doesn't seem to get along with Callaway much 
      • Robbie Ray: $11m - price in prospects and salary is tough for Angels, but talent is clear, extension candidate could bring '20 payroll down
      • Lance Lynn: $11.3m - salary is high, but Texas could be open to taking back minimal salary contributions (see below) as part of return value
      • Jose Quintana: $11.5m - same as above, as Cubs have need at infield, outfield, and bullpen 
      • Kyle Hendricks: $12m - same as above
      • Marcus Stroman $12m - salary is awfully high, probably too much so for the Angels to really consider him
      • Yu Darvish: $22m - it'd blow past Angels budget, but the length of contract opens the door for the Cubs to eat salary or take back Cozart as a way to help the Angels '20 payroll
      • David Price: $32m - Maddon favorite, same concept re: Cozart - no other money involved, Angels payroll would be at $202m after Cole, Castellanos, and Price, less Cozart. Pretty much no room for anything else, but three huge adds.
        • There are varying scenarios where La Stella ($3m), Goodwin ($2m), Heaney ($5m), Bedrosian ($3m) could be worked into a deal as well, if the Halos really need to save a few mil and the other team is interested. 
           
  3. When I say #4 or #5, I'm looking at bottom of the barrel types. The guys like Gio and Miley last year who signed for ~$3m, basically an amount that's negligible against payroll. 
  4. Signing Andrelton Simmons to a contract extension could free up a couple more million. He's slated for $15m. They could renegotiate his deal and back-load it as well, to save a few million. 
  5. Castellanos could presumably make La Stella or Goodwin expendable - they could be dealt for marginal SP help, relief help, a decent vet catcher, or for a less-exciting but still solid prospect to replace whomever is dealt for a #2-3 type arm. 

The question would be if Eppler and Arte are willing to go this direction. Backloading Castellanos' contract by that much I don't like. I think what the Angels could end up doing is signing Castellanos, Cole then a #5 guy. They will attempt to trade for a #2 guy but will either fall short or they completely overpay for it. 
If it's true that Castellanos is even on the Angels' radar means they have some form of trade plan going on. Or the fact that they worry a lot about LF, 1B, LaStella as well as DH and don't feel comfortable with the current lineup. The only way I'd accept this trade is if it doesn't hurt throwing money at Cole and still pushing for a #2 guy be it via FA or trade. They need a Cole/#2 punch in order to compete in the playoffs. Hopefully Marsh has his value high enough where he can centerpiece.  
If they don't plan on getting a #2 guy after Cole (assuming they sign Cole), then it will be a year where they just miss the playoffs or lose in WC game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way this makes sense is if the Angels know Pujols is going to retire before next season.  Being that isn't going to happen, I think this is just a BS rumor probably put out there by Castellanos team.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

and

HITTING

and

DEFENSE

win

BALL GAMES

Well Castellanos has a significantly negative impact on the defense, which also impacts the pitching. 

Don't sign Castellanos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this