The Official Gerrit Cole (Please sign with the Angels) Thread

[totdprods]

45 minutes ago, RBM said:

Yeah, I see how it works for the Cubs. Spotrac has them over the cap right now so they definitely need to dump some salary. I don't like the idea of us taking on salary and giving up pieces like Marsh, Rengifo, Fletcher, Sandoval, etc. Eppler isn't going to do anything stupid in a trade but I would like to see him sign FA's and keep the kids.

For example. I would prefer to see Eppler sign Zack Wheeler, Cole Hamels and Travis d'Arnoud instead of trading a bunch of our young guys for Darvish, Quintana and Contreras.

And pulling it back on topic this is in addition to Eppler signing Gerrit Cole.

We can afford a little bit of prospect capital for a long-term asset at a position of dire need. Rengifo and/or Marsh *are* expendable to a degree, at least for a player like Contreras, and a young MLB-ready SP could be too if the Angels were getting a vet arm back. 

And yes, of course all this is for a secondary or even tertiary arm behind signing Cole. If the Angels landed someone like Contreras, it leaves Simmons and Pujols as the worst hitters on the team. That’s a big plus. And the idea of adding *three* vet arms to the rotation is extremely intriguing. This team could shape up in a hurry. 

[Docwaukee]

13 minutes ago, totdprods said:

We can afford a little bit of prospect capital for a long-term asset at a position of dire need. Rengifo and/or Marsh *are* expendable to a degree, at least for a player like Contreras, and a young MLB-ready SP could be too if the Angels were getting a vet arm back. 

And yes, of course all this is for a secondary or even tertiary arm behind signing Cole. If the Angels landed someone like Contreras, it leaves Simmons and Pujols as the worst hitters on the team. That’s a big plus. And the idea of adding *three* vet arms to the rotation is extremely intriguing. This team could shape up in a hurry. 

I know that is your contention, but I'm not sure it's even remotely true.  

[UndertheHalo]

The Angels can and should spend money to get the pitchers they need.  They shouldn’t use prospects they have few of to get them.  Any good bet they trade for will cost a lot more then they can afford to trade away if there is any desire to continue the project of building a rich and consistent pipeline of major league talent.  They just can’t keep doing this stuff.

[UndertheHalo]

Also, I will re affirm my very strong belief that it’s a mistake to trade a fielder like Brandon Marsh for a pitching prospect.  In general trading fielders for pitchers should be avoided. 

[tdawg87]

I think if we want any legit, cost-controlled starters the conversation starts and ends with Adell/Marsh. Guys like Jones, Thaiss, Ward etc... don't hold a ton of value. And lower level guys like Yan aren't likely to be seen as good chips yet. 

I know it's not all about rankings, but in general it's a good place to start. Pitching costs a premium so I'd expect any team willing to part with it to ask for our top 2-3 guys. A trade for Thor for example, would likely cost our top 3 and maybe even top 4. That just fucks our system right in the ass.

Just spend the damn money, Arte. 

[totdprods]

59 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I know that is your contention, but I'm not sure it's even remotely true.  

If Eppler really is under some pressure to produce a winner - which seems to be the case, though I feel it's being exaggerated a bit - then yes, I do think the Angels can afford to deal an outfielder, an infielder, and a SP, provided they've signed two other top arms or are trading for a third. Building a farm and hoarding prospects won't do Eppler any good if he's not here to see them make the bigs, so ultimately, if there is truth to him having some heat, I think he'll have to weigh what moves he can make in addition to spending money. 

Eppler has done a tremendous job rebuilding this farm system over the last 3-4 years. If a trade involving some of those prospects ensures he's here for another 3-4 years by way of producing a winning season and landing him an extension, then I have confidence he'll find a way to replenish the farm as he has been.

Let's say the Angels deal Marsh, Rengifo, and Suarez, a big haul for a SP or Contreras or both.
Adams replaces Marsh. Toolsy OF.
Knowles/Deveaux replace Adams. More toolsy OFs.
Wong replaces Rengifo - a safe AAA IF who never had much prospect helium but has always hit. 
Jones replaces Wong. Next in-line at AAA as depth.
Wilson/Jackson potentially replaces Jones. Next impact IF prospects.
Soriano/Yan replace Suarez - they'll likely be in A+ next year, and we saw Barria, Canning, Suarez, and almost Sandoval all go from A+ to AAA in one year. 

We have just enough depth to make a trade work from those three areas - but I totally agree that after that, we're pretty much screwed in terms of trade depth, so if a trade is made, it better count and not miss.

FWIW ---- I don't personally agree with this path and I hope I'm wrong. 

I'm all for keeping everyone, giving Eppler an extension, and waiting another year or two for all this to pay off.
I think he's done a great job and expectations have been heightened because:

• 1) our SP prospects, Adell and now arguably Marsh all 'arrived' about a year earlier than anticipated
• 2) the constant stream of pitcher injuries and the trauma it left on the fanbase
• 3) Arte's frustrations, to whichever degree, and media/fans speculating due to coaching moves

For a couple years now, I felt 2021 was really the year where things should be rockin' and rollin' with 2020 being the year we should have been seeing Canning, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, Thaiss, Rengifo, and Adell getting their feet wet, and it happened sooner than expected.
I'm all for keeping everyone, signing Cole and one-year deals, extending Eppler, and seeing what happens and improving next winter instead.

[tdawg87]

Just now, totdprods said:

If Eppler really is under some pressure to produce a winner - which seems to be the case, though I feel it's being exaggerated a bit - then yes, I do think the Angels can afford to deal an outfielder, an infielder, and a SP, provided they've signed two other top arms or are trading for a third. Building a farm and hoarding prospects won't do Eppler any good if he's not here to see them make the bigs, so ultimately, if there is truth to him having some heat, I think he'll have to weigh what moves he can make in addition to spending money. 

Eppler has done a tremendous job rebuilding this farm system over the last 3-4 years. If a trade involving some of those prospects ensures he's here for another 3-4 years by way of producing a winning season and landing him an extension, then I have confidence he'll find a way to replenish the farm as he has been.

Let's say the Angels deal Marsh, Rengifo, and Suarez, a big haul for a SP or Contreras or both.
Adams replaces Marsh. Toolsy OF.
Knowles/Deveaux replace Adams. More toolsy OFs.
Wong replaces Rengifo - a safe AAA IF who never had much prospect helium but has always hit. 
Jones replaces Wong. Next in-line at AAA as depth.
Wilson/Jackson potentially replaces Jones. Next impact IF prospects.
Soriano/Yan replace Suarez - they'll likely be in A+ next year, and we saw Barria, Canning, Suarez, and almost Sandoval all go from A+ to AAA in one year. 

We have just enough depth to make a trade work from those three areas - but I totally agree that after that, we're pretty much screwed in terms of trade depth, so if a trade is made, it better count and not miss.

FWIW ---- I don't personally agree with this path and I hope I'm wrong. 

I'm all for keeping everyone, giving Eppler an extension, and waiting another year or two for all this to pay off.
I think he's done a great job and expectations have been heightened because:

• 1) our SP prospects, Adell and now arguably Marsh all 'arrived' about a year earlier than anticipated
• 2) the constant stream of pitcher injuries and the trauma it left on the fanbase
• 3) Arte's frustrations, to whichever degree, and media/fans speculating due to coaching moves

For a couple years now, I felt 2021 was really the year where things should be rockin' and rollin' with 2020 being the year we should have been seeing Canning, Suarez, Barria, Sandoval, Thaiss, Rengifo, and Adell getting their feet wet, and it happened sooner than expected.
I'm all for keeping everyone, signing Cole and one-year deals, extending Eppler, and seeing what happens and improving next winter instead.

IMO, Eppler is just as much concerned about the shape in which he would leave the system as he is about "going all out". He's not Dipoto who will drain the farm like a prostitute will drain your balls for a fiver.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

IMO, Eppler is just as much concerned about the shape in which he would leave the system as he is about "going all out". He's not Dipoto who will drain the farm like a prostitute will drain your balls for a fiver.

Why would he be overly concerned about making the job for his replacement easier? He's probably done enough here to get another job if he is let go after 2020. In fact, I could see how making a bold, win-now trade could be seen as the last thing he has to accomplish in advance of a new job.

I mean, I'm not saying he's going to scorch earth it or do anything to intentionally make things worse, but dealing a trio of guys not named Adell or Canning isn't the end of the world for whomever comes in next, if it doesn't do the trick. It's not like he's grooming someone to replace him here if the Angels cut ties after 2020.

[tdawg87]

22 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Why would he be overly concerned about making the job for his replacement easier? He's probably done enough here to get another job if he is let go after 2020. In fact, I could see how making a bold, win-now trade could be seen as the last thing he has to accomplish in advance of a new job.

I mean, I'm not saying he's going to scorch earth it or do anything to intentionally make things worse, but dealing a trio of guys not named Adell or Canning isn't the end of the world for whomever comes in next, if it doesn't do the trick. It's not like he's grooming someone to replace him here if the Angels cut ties after 2020.

It's not about making the job easier, it's about not leaving it as a complete dumpster fire. Building the farm is an important part of what a GM does. 

I think if Eppler isn't back next year, it's because he failed to get any of the top pitchers this year with at least $40 million in payroll to work with. If he "panics" and has to trade Marsh, Adams et al for a pitcher and then the Angels fail to make the playoffs in 2020, what does that do for him? He leaves the system in shambles and the team isn't really any closer to competing.

[tdawg87]

Think of it as a resume builder: Eppler inherited a complete pile of shit and was able to turn it around in just a few years. 

Dipoto has to um, omit some things...

[CanadianHalo]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's not about making the job easier, it's about not leaving it as a complete dumpster fire. Building the farm is an important part of what a GM does. 

I think if Eppler isn't back next year, it's because he failed to get any of the top pitchers this year with at least $40 million in payroll to work with. If he "panics" and has to trade Marsh, Adams et al for a pitcher and then the Angels fail to make the playoffs in 2020, what does that do for him? He leaves the system in shambles and the team isn't really any closer to competing.

Eppler has no reason to care whatsoever what shape he leaves the farm or anything in for that matter. 

If everything fails while trading away prospects like Marsh. Eppler can simply answer for this during interviews next year by saying he was under a great amount of pressure to produce a winning record. 

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

It's not about making the job easier, it's about not leaving it as a complete dumpster fire. Building the farm is an important part of what a GM does. 

I think if Eppler isn't back next year, it's because he failed to get any of the top pitchers this year with at least $40 million in payroll to work with. If he "panics" and has to trade Marsh, Adams et al for a pitcher and then the Angels fail to make the playoffs in 2020, what does that do for him? He leaves the system in shambles and the team isn't really any closer to competing.

Trading Marsh, Rengifo, and Sandoval for Contreras or Thor or Darvish or Boyd probably won't cost him another GM opportunity. Those guys are important to the Angels, but dealing them does not destroy the farm.

Trading Adell or Canning might. 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Trading Marsh, Rengifo, and Sandoval for Contreras or Thor or Darvish or Boyd probably won't cost him another GM opportunity. Those guys are important to the Angels, but dealing them does not destroy the farm.

Trading Adell or Canning might. 

Contreras or Thor? Yeah sure. But Darvish or Boyd? Yikes...

Btw I think Contreras and especially Thor costs both Adell and Marsh.

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

Eppler has no reason to care whatsoever what shape he leaves the farm or anything in for that matter. 

I just don't agree at all I think we should be concerned if that's the case.

[Lou]

I still can't believe that grown men call another grown man "Thor".

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

I still can't believe that grown men call another grown man "Thor".

I'm not typing out "Syndergaard" every time. 

[Lou]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I'm not typing out "Syndergaard" every time. 

haha. made you do it. 

[Troll Daddy]

[Out]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Trading Marsh, Rengifo, and Sandoval for Contreras or Thor or Darvish or Boyd probably won't cost him another GM opportunity. Those guys are important to the Angels, but dealing them does not destroy the farm.

Trading Adell or Canning might. 

LOL, Boyd!

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

 

[disarcina]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 12:10 PM, Sean-Regan said:

Hamilton was a rebound signing? We never bid on Greinke. There was no bidding war that I recall. 

Also, the Dodgers aren’t signing Cole. They don’t go long on years anymore. 

I think Hamilton was - if I recall right -- the Dodgers had just signed some player - can't recall who it was at this point -- but at the time it seemed like one of those New York type battle for the headlines -- where the Yankees would make some move and the Mets would feel compelled to counter it just to recapture the tabloids for a day or two - never made any sense to me --- certainly made no sense then or now (when newspapers are even less read than back then) in the Los Angeles market.  But I seem to recall Arte was still a relatively new owner and was tryig to make a splash that was a dud from Day One.

As for Greinke -- we traded for him as a trade deadline rental -- was that all he was ? I assume the Halos were willing to make some effort to sign him. Others disagree with my recall on this but watching the games back then I remember Grienke had some arm (perhaps leg) issue his first scheduled start for the Halos was pushed back a few days, perhaps a week.  By the time of this first start for the Halos, the Angels had lost several straight games to teams within the AL West and pretty much fell out of contention within a week of Greinke's arrival. So by the time of his first start, if he was a rental, the rental time wasn't working too well and it seemed the only reason to trade for him was to some how get an advantage on signing him long term.  That obviously hit a road block as Greinke's attitude day one seemed to be one of he'd rather be anywhere but Anaheim -- sort of like when the Halos did the Mark Teixiera deal as rental -- Teixiera, too, made it well known he was going for big F/A pay day and it wouldn't be in Anaheim -- although -- the Halos did get some valued rental time performance from Teixiera who played well and surprising (to me anyway) was excellent on defense at 1B.

As for Cole -- the Dodgers' front office would be nuts if they did not bid on Cole and Strasburg - both with S. Cal ties -- with the issues the Dodgers have with their rotation.  If the Dodgers could snap Cole out from under the Angels' grasp -- they'd do it in a heart-beat. A double win for them -- one of the two best starting pitchers available this off-season and they could be seen as stealing him from the Angels.  And even if the Dodgers don't bite in a bidding war or give up quickly -- we all know Boras will try to create the perception of a bidding war. This news just in ! LOL !!

 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, disarcina said:

I think Hamilton was - if I recall right -- the Dodgers had just signed some player - can't recall who it was at this point -- but at the time it seemed like one of those New York type battle for the headlines -- where the Yankees would make some move and the Mets would feel compelled to counter it just to recapture the tabloids for a day or two - never made any sense to me --- certainly made no sense then or now (when newspapers are even less read than back then) in the Los Angeles market.  But I seem to recall Arte was still a relatively new owner and was tryig to make a splash that was a dud from Day One.

As for Greinke -- we traded for him as a trade deadline rental -- was that all he was ? I assume the Halos were willing to make some effort to sign him. Others disagree with my recall on this but watching the games back then I remember Grienke had some arm (perhaps leg) issue his first scheduled start for the Halos was pushed back a few days, perhaps a week.  By the time of this first start for the Halos, the Angels had lost several straight games to teams within the AL West and pretty much fell out of contention within a week of Greinke's arrival. So by the time of his first start, if he was a rental, the rental time wasn't working too well and it seemed the only reason to trade for him was to some how get an advantage on signing him long term.  That obviously hit a road block as Greinke's attitude day one seemed to be one of he'd rather be anywhere but Anaheim -- sort of like when the Halos did the Mark Teixiera deal as rental -- Teixiera, too, made it well known he was going for big F/A pay day and it wouldn't be in Anaheim -- although -- the Halos did get some valued rental time performance from Teixiera who played well and surprising (to me anyway) was excellent on defense at 1B.

As for Cole -- the Dodgers' front office would be nuts if they did not bid on Cole and Strasburg - both with S. Cal ties -- with the issues the Dodgers have with their rotation.  If the Dodgers could snap Cole out from under the Angels' grasp -- they'd do it in a heart-beat. A double win for them -- one of the two best starting pitchers available this off-season and they could be seen as stealing him from the Angels.  And even if the Dodgers don't bite in a bidding war or give up quickly -- we all know Boras will try to create the perception of a bidding war. This news just in ! LOL !!

 

At the risk of being disrespectful, I think you’re wrong on this whole post.

First, Hamilton was signed in 2013. Arte bought the team in 2003. He wasn’t making a statement signing. He signed Pujols the year before. Greinke was traded for during the season before that and after the season it became clear that Arte and/or Dipoto weren’t prepared to spend as much as Greinke would receive. So Arte pivoted to Hamilton. 

On Greinke, that isn’t how I recall his trade going. My recollection is that they were in the race until the very end of the season and came up short of the Wild Card late. I don’t recall a Greinke or Texeira having an anywhere-but-Anaheim attitude. Texeira was in negotiations to stay here and Arte thought they had a deal. Turned out, we were just being used as a negotiation tactic by Boras to raise the price in NY - where Tex’s wife wanted to be. Greinke, I believe we hoped to re-sign him until Dipoto realized how much he would cost, but I could be wrong on that. 

And on Cole, pay attention to how the Dodgers have been run since Friedman came over. They don’t actually care about the Angels. They certainly won’t bid just to raise the price for us. Why? Because we aren’t their rival even if some Angels fans think they are. You don’t understand the Dodgers at all. 

[Claude]

New York Post....

Some interesting takes.

 

1. Gerrit Cole (RHP, Age: 29): You grew up in Orange County (California, not New York) and now you receive an opportunity to return there and make gobs of money. Old people like me call this “a no-brainer.” Prediction: Los Angeles Angels, eight years, $280 million.

4. Zack Wheeler (RHP, Age: 29): Kudos to him for enduring great expectations, major injury setbacks and Mets organizational chaos. Now comes the reward. Prediction: New York Yankees, four years, $85 million.

8. Jake Odorizzi (RHP, Age: 29): The most unheralded pitcher of this top tier should get rewarded for his consistency. Prediction: Houston Astros, four years, $66 million.

15. Mike Moustakas (3B-2B, Age: 31): This marks his third straight foray into the open market, which has not been kind to him. Here’s betting on a little more kindness this time. Prediction: Los Angeles Angels, two years, $25 million.

21. Dellin Betances (RHP, Age: 31): That he appeared to straighten out his arm before his lower half gave out last September should help the drafted-and-developed Yankee. Prediction: Los Angeles Dodgers, two years, $20 million.

26. Yasiel Puig (OF, Age: 28): The best bet here to get a one-year deal, the optimal strategy to get the most out of the erratic, exciting talent. Prediction: Miami Marlins, one year, $7 million.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Calzone 2

[ScottT]

I don't get the speculation about getting an infielder.  Do people forget Tommy La Stella is on the Angels?

Barring the trade of an infielder, the Angels aren't spending much on an infielder.

[Claude]

1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

At the risk of being disrespectful, I think you’re wrong on this whole post.

First, Hamilton was signed in 2013. Arte bought the team in 2003. He wasn’t making a statement signing. He signed Pujols the year before. Greinke was traded for during the season before that and after the season it became clear that Arte and/or Dipoto weren’t prepared to spend as much as Greinke would receive. So Arte pivoted to Hamilton. 

On Greinke, that isn’t how I recall his trade going. My recollection is that they were in the race until the very end of the season and came up short of the Wild Card late. I don’t recall a Greinke or Texeira having an anywhere-but-Anaheim attitude. Texeira was in negotiations to stay here and Arte thought they had a deal. Turned out, we were just being used as a negotiation tactic by Boras to raise the price in NY - where Tex’s wife wanted to be. Greinke, I believe we hoped to re-sign him until Dipoto realized how much he would cost, but I could be wrong on that. 

And on Cole, pay attention to how the Dodgers have been run since Friedman came over. They don’t actually care about the Angels. They certainly won’t bid just to raise the price for us. Why? Because we aren’t their rival even if some Angels fans think they are. You don’t understand the Dodgers at all. 

Point 1

Hamilton was signed because Arte and Dipoto panicked when they saw that Albert wasn’t going to hit  like St. louis Albert and carry the team to another level. He jumped on Hamilton without checking the CarFax.

Point 2

Dipoto, Arte, Carpino not understanding what the market would be to extend Greinke was just another level of organizational stupidity. 

Point 3

You are correct because the Dodgers are in the National League so the Angels are completely irrelevant to them. They could care less about who we sign because we pose no threat to them. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Calzone 2