The Official Gerrit Cole (Please sign with the Angels) Thread

[Second Base]

Maybe it's just the Homer in me, but Petriello's podcast pissed me off listening to it. He chooses to pay attention to some things and chooses to ignore others with no rhyme or reason.

- Mike Trout needs to stay healthy. Ok I can agree but calling him injury prone was pretty dumb.

- Upton and Simmons combine for 5 wins above replacement. While I agree they need to stay healthy, 5 wins is seeing the bar pretty low. His reasoning is that they're in their 30's, both coming off lower body injuries. It makes sense except in the same breath he mentions Upton paying several consecutive years of 600 PA and 20 HR. Again, maybe I'm a Homer, but I think Upton and Simmons are better than that.

- He casts serious doubt on Ohtani being a 5-6 win player. If I've learned one thing from watching him, it's that Ohtani can do pretty much ANYTHING.

- He chooses to completely ignore the youth of the pitching staff and the odds of guys like Canning, Suarez, Sandoval and Barria improving.

- He chooses to completely ignore the other young parts of this team improving, like Rengifo or Thaiss.

- He mentions they should trade for Contreras but offers no package.

- He heaps the praises on Dallas Keuchel because of how good the Angels defense is, but just five minutes earlier was talking about how Simmons wasn't going to be as good.

- He mostly used the whole exercise for two purposes....1. to highlight how much better he thinks the White Sox are than the Angels and 2, how much the Angels need Cole.

Again, it might just be the Homer in me, but it rubbed need the won't way. I think it's also the comment that they Angels need everything to do perfectly for them to even be in contention.

He also makes zero mention of the potential improvement because of Maddon and Calloway.

To me, it was a shallow podcast coming from a non-Angels fan that understand the basic construct of the team but couldn't even begin to dive in deeper into their talent pool even if he wanted to because he simply doesn't know anything about it.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Second Base

[Second Base]

18 minutes ago, RBM said:

I read Petriello's article this morning but didn't see this link to his podcast until after I started the thread about his article. The podcast definitely has more information to to digest and I agree he misses on some things. The plus factor for Rengifo, Thaiss and Fletcher is huge but overlooked and his comments about the five one year contracts they signed last year is not explained in the context of Eppler's overall plan. And in the podcast he comes off more pro White Sox than Angels when I really see them in similar positions this offseason.

But I think for a National guy who has to know about all 30 teams Petriello has more knowledge of the Angels specific needs than most. Maybe I feel this way because the Sherman GM for a day stuff from yesterday was so bad.

Yeah, I can agree with that. It's fundamentally difficult to know the specifics of 30 teams. So perhaps I shouldn't expect more. I don't need a Rosy red outlook from them, just more complete understanding of the system. But that's a lot to ask for.

[rottiesworld]

15 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ok let me back track. I think I misspoke because I just reread it. In order to sign Gerrit Cole RIGHT NOW, it would require paying him more than they're paying Trout and that's just not a direction the team is willing to go.

So maybe the Angels will be the high bidder, but right now they aren't going to meet the skiing price.

That is stupid to pay any pitcher more then what Trout gets. A pitcher is in only about 30 games or so compare to Trout about 140 or so games, so no way would the Angels do that.

[Dick B Back]

3 minutes ago, rottiesworld said:

That is stupid to pay any pitcher more then what Trout gets. A pitcher is in only about 30 games or so compare to Trout about 140 or so games, so no way would the Angels do that.

Trout’s only played 140 games once in the past 3 years. He’s on the fast track to Mangville.

[ten ocho recon scout]

If we land Cole, and only Cole, it wouldnt be ideal, but would literally change the future of the franchise. (Obviously with regard to moves in the next few years).

But say we sign him, and adell is 80 percent what were hoping. With Trout. And Ohtani. With hopefully Marsh working out.

All those are pretty realistic.

Then say renigfo and or fletcher take a step forward....

Im not counting in him signing here. The signs say yes, but i dont think were THE favorite any more than a few other teams. And theres other ways to spend money and improve.

But man... again, if adell works out...

Cole, trout, ohtani, adell....

[Lou]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

If we land Cole, and only Cole, it wouldnt be ideal, but would literally change the future of the franchise. (Obviously with regard to moves in the next few years).

But say we sign him, and adell is 80 percent what were hoping. With Trout. And Ohtani. With hopefully Marsh working out.

All those are pretty realistic.

Then say renigfo and or fletcher take a step forward....

Im not counting in him signing here. The signs say yes, but i dont think were THE favorite any more than a few other teams. And theres other ways to spend money and improve.

But man... again, if adell works out...

Cole, trout, ohtani, adell....

[Brandon]

18 hours ago, Second Base said:

Ok let me back track. I think I misspoke because I just reread it. In order to sign Gerrit Cole RIGHT NOW, it would require paying him more than they're paying Trout and that's just not a direction the team is willing to go.

So maybe the Angels will be the high bidder, but right now they aren't going to meet the skiing price.

Cole is not going to get more than Trout

[Pancake Bear]

1 minute ago, RBM said:

Well, he won't get $426.5 M total but he may get close to Trout's AAV of $35.5 M. 

The highest AAV for a pitcher is Greinke with $34.4 so I could see Cole looking for more than that. 7 for $245 M is an AAV of $35 M

Bowden projected 8yr/288m (36aav). That’s a tough sell for me, and I’d be stunned if it got there, but I’d probably still do it, tbh. I don’t have an issue with a guy getting a higher aav than Trout for 2/3 of the contract length. Apples and oranges. And Cole is a true ace.

[Brandon]

2 hours ago, RBM said:

Well, he won't get $426.5 M total but he may get close to Trout's AAV of $35.5 M. 

The highest AAV for a pitcher is Greinke with $34.4 so I could see Cole looking for more than that. 7 for $245 M is an AAV of $35 M

So still less

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, Sean-Regan said:

Bowden projected 8yr/288m (36aav). That’s a tough sell for me, and I’d be stunned if it got there, but I’d probably still do it, tbh. I don’t have an issue with a guy getting a higher aav than Trout for 2/3 of the contract length. Apples and oranges. And Cole is a true ace.

At this point I think we should expect Arte to get bent over by Boras. 

Imagine if the Chisox get Wheeler, then we get outbid for Cole. Fuckin Trout's going to demand a trade.

[Pancake Bear]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

At this point I think we should expect Arte to get bent over by Boras. 

Imagine if the Chisox get Wheeler, then we get outbid for Cole. Fuckin Trout's going to demand a trade.

If that happened, I’d say time for Arte to sell the team because all the talk of spending was garbage. 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Sean-Regan said:

If that happened, I’d say time for Arte to sell the team because all the talk of spending was garbage. 

I don't think it will. If he has to pay Cole $40 million a year I think he will. 

We're in a shitty spot and every agent knows it.

[Claude]

11 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think it will. If he has to pay Cole $40 million a year I think he will. 

We're in a shitty spot and every agent knows it.

 

[Troll Daddy]

Listen to us ... we’re worried about who going to make more    They both will be making stupid money ... more money than they could ever spend in their lifetime.  Most people are living paycheck to paycheck. 

[Second Base]

Right now, I find it highly doubtful that Cole gets less than 34 million. The OC location does help, but it isn't like that will be the deciding factor between 30 million and 35. 

As stated before, every agent knows the Angels are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have to compete, and they need their clients to do it. Eppler can talk yup the major league ready talent he had all he wants, but we all know it won't be getting them the ace they need. Teams aren't dangling those, and as much as I like Matt Thaiss and Rengifo, they just aren't going to command that kind of return.

There just aren't enough alternatives. The Angels have to spend and if they want the best, they're going to get forced to outspend some big market, contending teams. 

I think the lowest Cole will get is 7/234. The most he will get is 8/278. The middle ground will probably be 7/250. At that point you just have to ask yourself if he's worth it to the Angels when they have other holes to fill.

If you thought that Zack Wheeler would be a valuable alternative, think again. His market figures to be quite a bit more robust. He's going to get over 100 million.

The real value here looks like it can only be had by taking on some risk. Hyun Jin Ryu might stay healthy and be an ace. But that's a risk. Because he might never be healthy. Same company with Michael Pineda.

[tdawg87]

This is why Are needs to whip his massive caramel colored nuts out and get Wheeler before even approaching Cole.

I don't think we're going to get both, but I can dream.

[Second Base]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

This is why Are needs to whip his massive caramel colored nuts out and get Wheeler before even approaching Cole.

I don't think we're going to get both, but I can dream.

That depends on how much Arte wants to win. When Dipoto first came aboard, Arte have him a blank check and said build a winner. Dipoto subsequently signed the biggest hitter and pitcher on the market. Then Arte doubled down and told Dipoto to get Hamilton. Here for sure that Trout, Pujols and Hamilton, combined with Weav, Haren and Wilson would be enough.

And it was. For one year.

If Arte would give Eppler the same freedom, you bet your ass he'd sign Cole and Wheeler. Those two alongside Ohtani would be enough. 

But again, how much is he willing to spend? While I can't say for sure, the fact that Joe Maddon is here is a good sign.

[Claude]

36 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Listen to us ... we’re worried about who going to make more    They both will be making stupid money ... more money than they could ever spend in their lifetime.  Most people are living paycheck to paycheck. 

Just wait until we get the news....

[Second Base]

[Second Base]

And I think the major difference between Dipoto and Eppler being allowed to spend too build a winner is sustainability. Eppler has built himself quite the farm system. Dipoto had traded it away. So when Dipoto did manage to build a winner in 2014, it was built in a core of players that had to stay healthy and productive and that simply didn't happen. If Eppler spend and builds a winner in 2020 and beyond, he's got wave after wave of talent incoming to prop up that winner.

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, Second Base said:

And I think the major difference between Dipoto and Eppler being allowed to spend too build a winner is sustainability. Eppler has built himself quite the farm system. Dipoto had traded it away. So when Dipoto did manage to build a winner in 2014, it was built in a core of players that had to stay healthy and productive and that simply didn't happen. If Eppler spend and builds a winner in 2020 and beyond, he's got wave after wave of talent incoming to prop up that winner.

Ehhh. Once Adell and Marsh graduate our system goes back to being in the bottom 5. I understand we have more depth now and there's a lot of talent in the lower systems, but there's not a ton in High A/AA who are close to making the jump. 

If Adams and Jackson take big steps forward then we're basically right back to where we are now. We really need big years from Chris Rodriguez, Jose Soriano, Hector Yan, and Jam Jones. 

[Brandon]

13 hours ago, RBM said:

I have no idea if it will be more or less for Cole.

I have no idea if it will be with the Angels or another team.

What I do know is it is impossible for you to say “Cole is not going to get more than Trout.”

You don’t know. We don’t know. And who cares. 

You do if you are posting about it. He's not going to make more than Trout.

[Second Base]

58 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Ehhh. Once Adell and Marsh graduate our system goes back to being in the bottom 5. I understand we have more depth now and there's a lot of talent in the lower systems, but there's not a ton in High A/AA who are close to making the jump. 

If Adams and Jackson take big steps forward then we're basically right back to where we are now. We really need big years from Chris Rodriguez, Jose Soriano, Hector Yan, and Jam Jones. 

You're looking at it from a very fixed position though. Development is a fluid process. You say after Adell and Marsh are promoted there isn't much, but that position fails to take into account any progression, so it's fundamentally inaccurate.

Jordyn Adams is only going to get better. Jahmai Jones looks to have turned a corner. You already know about Rodriguez, Yan and Soriano so I won't bore you with those details. Will Wilson was one of the top college bats in the country and a first round pick, so you can expect continual progression there. Jeremiah Jackson broke records as a 19 year old. Kyren Paris has great upside. Kochanowicz might be the most promising arm in the system. Aaron Hernandez is touching 98 on the mound as a starter, and finished the test incredibly strong and was absolutely filthy in the AFL. The Angels signed a couple of really good international prospects the past couple years in Alex Ramirez and Arol Vera.

Last but not least, the #10 pick of next year's draft. That's likely going to be another top 100 prospect, if not quite a bit more. Swanson and Eppler have done some pretty magical stuff together with their 1-3rd round picks.

Now I'm sure I didn't teach you anything you didn't already know with those names and brief description, by it was more meant to serve as a reminder that when you have that much depth, that much talent, you don't have to worry about the cupboard being bare. Someone is always going to step up.

And you mention the lack of depth in Advanced A Ball and AA, and while that's somewhat true, I think you can plan on seeing Adams, Wilson, Maitan, Martinez, Hernandez, Bradish, Soriano, Rodriguez, Yan, Pina and Stallings all out there. That's a ton of talent. A lot can happen.

The one thing that I feel really certain if though, is that your assertion that without Adell and Marsh the Angels system will suddenly turn into a bottom five system is wrong. If this was Dipoto, you'd be absolutely right. 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Second Base

[CanadianHalo]

I mean eventually at sooooooome point I’d like to think you’re actually going to be right about the Angels farm system for once. 
 

We could really benefit from that time being this time. 

[tdawg87]

Of course there will be progression, but not everyone you mentioned is going to progress. Jones could stall again, C-Rod could get hurt again, Jackson could struggle mightily facing tougher pitching, etc...

And yes, we'll be getting a number 10 pick, but assuming we sign a pitcher like Cole, we're losing a 2nd round pick. That means no Marsh, Canning, Jones, Jackson. And if we get another pitcher with a pick attached we lose our 3rd pick as well. 

Hopefully we do get significant progression over the next 2 years, but if we don't, our system isn't looking so good, again.