Chuckster70

Could the Angels build a Washington Nationals type rotation this offseason?

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Disclaimer, there's a lot of if's here. 

But, if the Angels sign Gerrit Cole (comparable to Scherzer) in addition to Shohei Ohtani (comparable to Strasburg), they're a Corbin type (Wheeler, Odorizzi or Ryu) and Sanchez (Canning or Heaney already rostered) away of having a pretty comparable rotation. So basically they're just two pitchers away in the free agent market from having a really good rotation and as the Nationals have proven, pitching wins playoff games against good hitting teams. 

They could also add some offense (not named Rendon, Grandal who will be too expensive for relatively cheap that would still be a boost to an already decent, pretty comparable offense to the Washington Nationals.)

Thoughts?

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Just now, Sean-Regan said:

3 pieces: 

Cole

Another solid pitcher (tougher pick; hard to know who the best option will be and whether that will be free agency or a trade).

Grandal.

Make those three moves, and this team is in good position going into 2020.

I agree with this too, I'm just saying if all we did is sign Cole and one of Wheeler/Odorizzi/Ryu we would have a pretty comparable rotation to that of the Washington Nationals. 

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

I see where you are coming from but to say Ohtani is comparable to Strasburg is premature at best.

Strasburg pitched 209 innings with 3.32 ERA and 1.038 WHIP.

In terms of stuff they're quite similar.

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33 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Disclaimer, there's a lot of IF's here. 

But, if the Angels sign Gerrit Cole (comparable to Scherzer) in addition to Shohei Ohtani (comparable to Strasburg), they're a Corbin type (Wheeler, Odorizzi or Ryu) and Sanchez (Canning or Heaney already rostered) away of having a pretty comparable rotation. So basically they're just two pitchers away in the free agent market from having a really good rotation and as the Nationals have proven, pitching wins playoff games against good hitting teams. 

They could also add some offense (not named Rendon, Grandal who will be too expensive for relatively cheap that would still be a boost to an already decent, pretty comparable offense to the Washington Nationals.)

Thoughts?

high fuck yeah GIF

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29 minutes ago, Sean-Regan said:

3 pieces: 

Cole

Another solid pitcher (tougher pick; hard to know who the best option will be and whether that will be free agency or a trade).

Grandal.

Make those three moves, and this team is in good position going into 2020.

Sorry to nitpick but you forgot to use the word backloaded in this particular post.

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25 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Could they? Yes

will they? No probably not. Would really be costly. 

Then they have no chance IMO. I doubt they pay Maddon 15 million to roll out guys like Cahill, Harvey types on the mound in 2020 and beyond. 

They need one of Strasburg or Cole, in addition to one of the secondary guys I mentioned in Ryu, Odorizzi or Wheeler. 

I think what we saw from Ohtani in his rookie campaign suggests he can be every bit as good as Strasburg was this season. You add in a #3 guy like Wheeler, Ryu or Odorrizi and you're looking pretty damn good. Canning and Heaney can be a solid 4&5 guy in our rotation. 

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1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

Then they have no chance IMO. 

They need one of Strasburg or Cole, in addition to one of the secondary guys I mentioned in Ryu, Odorizzi or Wheeler. 

I think what we saw from Ohtani in his rookie campaign suggests he can be every bit as good as Strasburg was this season. You add in a #3 guy like Wheeler, Ryu or Odorrizi and you're looking pretty damn good. Canning and Heaney can be a solid 4&5 guy in our rotation. 

I don’t know if we have no shot. But I agree they need good starting pitching. I love Ohtani upside. But he’s really not gonna pitch anywhere near 200 innings. His skill set and upside is that of a number 1 or 2 guy. But I think you realistically need to view Ohtani as your teams 3/4 guy because he’s just not gonna get enough time on the mound. He’s so valuable to the line up. Plus he’s coming off of two surgeries. I think someone did a write up a little bit ago that said something like the most innings of everything goes perfect he will pitch will be around 130-150? I can’t remember who said it tho so 🤷‍♂️ They def need two top tier starting pitchers. And some offense to catch these other teams ahead of them and after losing 90 games there are a lot of teams ahead of the Angels. 

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4 minutes ago, Chris said:

The Nationals certainly invested in their rotation contracts wise.  I hope Arte is willing to do similar.

They're most likely going to lose Anthony Rendon to FA and they're still going to be a playoff team because of their starting pitching

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Assuming the Angels want to go big after signing Maddon …. What do you think it would cost for Cole and MadBum? Could we spend some prospect resources to get a SP by trade as well and really have a killer rotation?

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Friendly reminder, the Nationals did not build that rotation in one offseason.

Carry on.

(Though I still think there’s an outside shot they sign two upper-tier FA SPs and swing a trade for another guy)

Which is the reason I started this thread, in that I too believe they will add two upper tiered starting pitchers. When you do that and you add those arms to Ohtani, Caning and Heaney, I'd say that's a pretty damn good rotation. 

Is it Nationals good? Maybe not, probably not, but it could be pretty damn close. 

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Next year has a really nice SP FA crop as well. I don’t want us to overcommit and get a potentially declining Bumgarner or an unreasonably priced Wheeler or a possibly overrated Odorizzi this offseason as our second arm of it costs us a chance at someone like Strasbourg, Ray, Stroman, Tanaka, Paxton or Minor next offseason. 

It’s why I still like the trade option for a second arm, with secondary free agent dollars going to cheap vet SPs, another high lev bullpen arm, or offensive help not named Grandal. 

Edited by totdprods

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2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Next year has a really nice SP FA crop as well. I don’t want us to overcommit and get a potentially declining Bumgarner or an unreasonably priced Wheeler or a possibly overrated Odorizzi this offseason as our second arm of it costs us a chance at someone like Ray, Stroman, Tanaka, or Minor next offseason. 

It’s why I still like the trade option for a second arm, with secondary free agent dollars going to cheap vet SPs, another high lev bullpen arm, or offensive help not named Grandal. 

A declining Bumgarner was still pretty good last year.... possible to get him  on 2-3 year deal ?

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1 minute ago, TNAngelsFan71 said:

A declining Bumgarner was still pretty good last year.... possible to get him  on 2-3 year deal ?

He’ll probably take 4, maybe even 5. He isn’t that old and he was quite good last year. 

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14 minutes ago, TNAngelsFan71 said:

A declining Bumgarner was still pretty good last year.... possible to get him  on 2-3 year deal ?

A declining Weaver was pretty good at 31, then very not good at 32 and 33. 

Different pitchers, yes, but Bumgarner’s risks don’t feel like the right gamble for this club right now. Hamels on a 1-2 year deal would be cheaper though less commitment and hopefully comparable production. He’d be my choice for a second arm behind Cole or Strasburg if we really wanted to make a statement with a second signing - and I’d still want to see a third arm brought in via trade. 

Bumgarner’s age is almost sure to net him 4 years...he seems like the perfect arm for Atlanta, Houston, Philly, or NYY to target instead of Cole. Less commitment. Possible frontline production. They have the contender status already, and for the most part, good rotations. If he’s an ace, they’re lethal in the playoffs. If he’s just good, they coast to playoffs. If he falters, they still have a good enough rotation to get by, Philly perhaps excluded.

Edited by totdprods

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5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Next year has a really nice SP FA crop as well. I don’t want us to overcommit and get a potentially declining Bumgarner or an unreasonably priced Wheeler or a possibly overrated Odorizzi this offseason as our second arm of it costs us a chance at someone like Strasbourg, Ray, Stroman, Tanaka, Paxton or Minor next offseason. 

It’s why I still like the trade option for a second arm, with secondary free agent dollars going to cheap vet SPs, another high lev bullpen arm, or offensive help not named Grandal. 

Strasburg won’t opt out next year. He’ll do it this year. Most of those arms aren’t that exceptional. Not more than this year.

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Just now, Sean-Regan said:

Strasburg won’t opt out next year. He’ll do it this year. Most of those arms aren’t that exceptional. Not more than this year.

Why not? He’d be the clear top arm of the class. He’s set to make $25m in ‘20, and then it dips back to $15m in ‘21.

Not saying he’ll definitely wait a year, but an argument could be made for waiting. 

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3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Why not? He’d be the clear top arm of the class. He’s set to make $25m in ‘20, and then it dips back to $15m in ‘21.

Not saying he’ll definitely wait a year, but an argument could be made for waiting. 

Because being the top arm is meaningless. What matters more is he’s had an ace like season. He’s also a year younger. He has an injury history, so best case for him is cash in now. Guarantee he doesn’t wait, although I think he likely stays with the Nats. Wouldn’t be shocked to see him go home to SD, though.  

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9 minutes ago, totdprods said:

A declining Weaver was pretty good at 31, then very not good at 32 and 33. 

Different pitchers, yes, but Bumgarner’s risks don’t feel like the right gamble for this club right now. Hamels on a 1-2 year deal would be cheaper though less commitment and hopefully comparable production. He’d be my choice for a second arm behind Cole or Strasburg if we really wanted to make a statement with a second signing - and I’d still want to see a third arm brought in via trade. 
 

Bumgarner’s age is almost sure to net him 4 years...

So what is your projection for Yrs/$$$ for Bumgarner and Hamels?

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