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What is your realistic expectations for this offseason & your wishlist?


Chuck

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13 minutes ago, RBM said:

Yep. I was thinking it could be a win-win but only if Arte wants to win now. If he wants to win now adding a guy like Robbie Ray as a third SP addition would be great.                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Fletcher's value is at or close to its peak. He is cost controlled for the next 5 years so he is a valuable asset. Robbie Ray has one more year of arbitration. I think Eppler could also get SP  or C prospect from AZ. They have 14 in their top 30. I think it would come down to if the D'Backs want to bring back Wilmer Flores in his walk year at $6 M or pay Fletcher $800 K.                                                                                            

Agree totally. A lot of conventional wisdom can kind of go out the window here if the mandate is ultimately Win Now from Arte, and if there's truth that this is Eppler's make or break year. 
For Eppler, there really isn't anything to lose if the heat is really on. Fletcher's control doesn't matter to him if he loses his job. Trading Marsh, Yan, Jackson, and Soriano for an arm as well. If it doesn't work, he'll move on - he's shown enough to latch on in another FO if not get another GM job fairly quickly. And if his moves do work out, he buys himself a contending team and a new contract to worry about replacing the prospects dealt. I'd love Robbie Ray. 

50 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

LOL...they are not trading Fletcher.

For the same reasons I just mentioned, really anything could be on the table if this year is the year, per Arte. Not saying I want it, but nothing could really be ruled out. Overpays, untouchable prospects, whatever.

Edited by totdprods
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57 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

LOL...they are not trading Fletcher.

I don't think they will either, but considering our infield depth I could see him going for the right price. And it should be a high price.

Fletcher and a relief prospect could potentially net us any pitcher on the market. Just saying...

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41 minutes ago, RBM said:

Fletcher's value is at or close to its peak. He is cost controlled for the next 5 years so he is a valuable asset. Robbie Ray has one more year of arbitration. I think Eppler could also get a SP  or C prospect from AZ. They have 14 in their top 30. I think it would come down to if the D'Backs want to bring back Wilmer Flores in his walk year at $6 M or pay Fletcher $800 K.                                                                                            

Honestly if Arizona was willing to trade Ray and a SP or C prospect for Fletcher that is a deal worth considering. In dreamworld, having a rotation of Cole, Odorizzi, Ray, Heaney, Canning, and Ohtani on Sundays at the cost of Fletcher and a bunch of money is a pretty good tradeoff. 

 

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30 minutes ago, redoctober2002 said:

Honestly if Arizona was willing to trade Ray and a SP or C prospect for Fletcher that is a deal worth considering. In dreamworld, having a rotation of Cole, Odorizzi, Ray, Heaney, Canning, and Ohtani on Sundays at the cost of Fletcher and a bunch of money is a pretty good tradeoff. 

They're likely to non-tender Jake Lamb this winter too...if you brought him back in a deal it makes it easier to trade off some infield depth for pitching, be it Fletcher, Thaiss, Ward, La Stella, etc.

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8 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't think they will either, but considering our infield depth I could see him going for the right price. And it should be a high price.

Fletcher and a relief prospect could potentially net us any pitcher on the market. Just saying...

 


Fletcher and a prospect will not get what you guys think it will.

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2 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 


Fletcher and a prospect will not get what you guys think it will.

Based on what?

He's 25 years old and put up a 3.4 fWAR in his 2nd season (first full season). He's under club control until 2025. You can slot him at pretty much any position and he can play it at a decent level at worst. Guys like him don't become available like, ever. Literally every team in baseball could use his services.

I very much think he and a prospect would get what I think it will.

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i Don't really have ideal and realist outcomes, but these are the guys i would like to have to be consider on the team.

G. Cole : what can i say! A true Number 1 that can shut down any line-up. 

Hamels or Kechuel. Gives us a different look, especially if we sign Cole with Ohtani and Canning, who are power/strike out pitchers, and Heaney being an Hybrid. We can put either one between Cole or Ohtani. Your going from  upper 90s strike out pitcher, to a cutter/ Ground ball pitcher and back to a upper 90's strike out pitcher

D'Arnaud: solid glove catcher, with some nice power 

Thames: Power hitting 1st/Rf bench bat, that can give pujols a day off, or backup option for Goodwin.

 

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I know it is an unpopular opinion, but maybe we should stay away from the big money free agents and instead attempt to acquire controllable talent through trades. It's pretty clear at this point that dishing out big money in free agency is generally a bad idea, especially for a team like the Angels that 1) has been spurned by it multiple occasions in recent memory and 2) only really has money to acquire Cole + maybe 1 and then have very little financial flexibility in the following season. In my opinion free agency can be very helpful, but it should be used as a way to supplement the talent already present, not as a means of remaking a team.

First let Calhoun go and hand Adell the job in RF. If he falters, give Marsh a shot.

In free agency I would go after short term deals on productive vets in free agency:

One of Chirinos, Wieters, Martin, Gomes to split time with Smith at catcher

One of Howie, Asdrubal Cabrera, Starlin Castro to provide us with added depth around the infield. I really like the idea of having Rengifo in AAA as insurance and Fletcher/La Stella/ One of these guys providing flexibility at nearly every infield position

Sign one or 2 of Kyle Gibson, Hamels, Keuchel, Gio Gonzalez, Wacha

Trade for one of Bundy, Caleb Smith, Kyle Freeland, Joe Musgrove - controllable guys who can fit in as reliable middle of the rotation starters, have shown upside, and won't cost the farm. 

And of course the usual waiver claims and minor league deals to bolster the pen

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6 minutes ago, SigBaby said:

I know it is an unpopular opinion, but maybe we should stay away from the big money free agents and instead attempt to acquire controllable talent through trades. It's pretty clear at this point that dishing out big money in free agency is generally a bad idea, especially for a team like the Angels that 1) has been spurned by it multiple occasions in recent memory and 2) only really has money to acquire Cole + maybe 1 and then have very little financial flexibility in the following season. In my opinion free agency can be very helpful, but it should be used as a way to supplement the talent already present, not as a means of remaking a team.

First let Calhoun go and hand Adell the job in RF. If he falters, give Marsh a shot.

In free agency I would go after short term deals on productive vets in free agency:

One of Chirinos, Wieters, Martin, Gomes to split time with Smith at catcher

One of Howie, Asdrubal Cabrera, Starlin Castro to provide us with added depth around the infield. I really like the idea of having Rengifo in AAA as insurance and Fletcher/La Stella/ One of these guys providing flexibility at nearly every infield position

Sign one or 2 of Kyle Gibson, Hamels, Keuchel, Gio Gonzalez, Wacha

Trade for one of Bundy, Caleb Smith, Kyle Freeland, Joe Musgrove - controllable guys who can fit in as reliable middle of the rotation starters, have shown upside, and won't cost the farm. 

And of course the usual waiver claims and minor league deals to bolster the pen

That would be a great way to waste another year for no apparent reason. 

Best case, that team would be awful and we’d get a high draft pick. Most likely, it would be meh, and we’d be nowhere close to competing or a good pick with Trout another year closer to decline. 

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All I'm saying is look at the direction the smarter teams are taking in regards to spending big in free agency. There are better, more sustainable ways to win than throwing money at free agents. Granted Cole is as close as you can get to a flawless FA with his age, dominance, and lack of red flags but if landing him or Strasburg is our only chance to win, then we've got much bigger problems than one free agent can fix.

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8 minutes ago, SigBaby said:

I know it is an unpopular opinion, but maybe we should stay away from the big money free agents and instead attempt to acquire controllable talent through trades. It's pretty clear at this point that dishing out big money in free agency is generally a bad idea, especially for a team like the Angels that 1) has been spurned by it multiple occasions in recent memory and 2) only really has money to acquire Cole + maybe 1 and then have very little financial flexibility in the following season. In my opinion free agency can be very helpful, but it should be used as a way to supplement the talent already present, not as a means of remaking a team.

First let Calhoun go and hand Adell the job in RF. If he falters, give Marsh a shot.

In free agency I would go after short term deals on productive vets in free agency:

One of Chirinos, Wieters, Martin, Gomes to split time with Smith at catcher

One of Howie, Asdrubal Cabrera, Starlin Castro to provide us with added depth around the infield. I really like the idea of having Rengifo in AAA as insurance and Fletcher/La Stella/ One of these guys providing flexibility at nearly every infield position

Sign one or 2 of Kyle Gibson, Hamels, Keuchel, Gio Gonzalez, Wacha

Trade for one of Bundy, Caleb Smith, Kyle Freeland, Joe Musgrove - controllable guys who can fit in as reliable middle of the rotation starters, have shown upside, and won't cost the farm. 

And of course the usual waiver claims and minor league deals to bolster the pen

Yikes. This is all worst case scenario IMO. Like Eppler fucked up baaaad and is now trying to piece together a team.

I think we can get Cole, Odorizzi, Grandal, and maybe work out a trade for another starter. Gonna have to be some serious backloading shenanigans but I think it's doable.

I think the biggest obstacle for getting Cole will be years owed, not necessarily the amount of money. 7 years is a loooong time for a pitcher. But a guy like Cole isn't going to accept a 4-5 year deal, especially not with Boras as his agent. I could see the Angels offering 6/200. For the first year, Cole gets $20 million. The 2nd year he gets $25 million. Then Pujols comes off the books so then it will go over 32 million.

Odorizzi I could see getting 3/51. He gets $12 million in 2020, $19 million in 2021, and $20 million in the final year.

Grandal is gonna push the payroll a bit, but I think Arte would consider it. Maybe 3/56? $13 million in 2020, so on and so forth. 

Finally, Anibal Sanchez. $7 million in 2020. The Nats are still looking to compete and their bullpen was horrid this year. Trade them Robles and a prospect and call it a day. 

That's a total of $52 million in payroll added. That would bring the actual payroll to about $187 million, roughly (I could be wrong, not sure where to find exact payroll figures). In terms of the luxury tax, that's 68 million (lol) added. That puts them exactly a million under the threshold. 

So the Angels completely transform their rotation, AND solidify the catcher's position all while staying under the luxury tax.

I should be GM tbh.

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36 minutes ago, SigBaby said:

All I'm saying is look at the direction the smarter teams are taking in regards to spending big in free agency. There are better, more sustainable ways to win than throwing money at free agents. Granted Cole is as close as you can get to a flawless FA with his age, dominance, and lack of red flags but if landing him or Strasburg is our only chance to win, then we've got much bigger problems than one free agent can fix.

We don’t have an ace. You can’t be competitive without one. The pitchers you named make no distinguishable difference from the two guys we grabbed last offseason. They might be fine, they might suck. Either way, they don’t move the needle without an impact arm. We don’t have one. We don’t have one in the system. Ohtani or Canning might be, but that’s far from certain. 

Smart teams use free agency to fill holes they can’t fill internally. We don’t need an outfielder. We probably don’t need an infielder (at least not urgently). We could use an upgrade at catcher and the bullpen, but those aren’t absolute needs. What we do need is an ace. It’s as simple as that. 

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I think the key question is - will Arte spend enough that he'll go over the luxury tax limit for a year or two, or does he treat the LT limit as a "hard" cap?

If he treats it as a hard cap, then assuming Calhoun's option is declined, we probably have up to 50mil or so to spend, after arbitration projections.

*IF* we sign Cole, who will likely cost 35 mil/year, that means one more significant addition - a 2nd SP (Ryu, Wheeler, etc) or someone like Grandal?  

Signing Cole, as exciting as it would be, likely does not leave a ton of money left to address other areas.  So the question is - would we rather sign Cole + a 2nd SP or someone like Grandal, or instead of Cole, sign 3 SPs like Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi, OR 2 SPs + Grandal.

 

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