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Shohei Ohtani to undergo left knee surgery, ending his season (timeline is 8-12 weeks)


rafibomb

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1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

He had the leg kick last spring and was awful. Once he ditched it, he was good. 

And this congenital knee condition didn’t bother him hitting. It was an issue as he ramped up his throwing off a mound. 

The only thing it affected was he had to modify some of his leg work in the weight room, which I suppose could have affected him. His issue this year was really his swing path, not his bat speed or the exit velo he produced. He hit the ball just as hard, but didn’t get it in the air enough. 

With this knowledge should the Angels be concerned with him lasting a full year on the mound with out injuries? Maybe his body just can’t handle pitching anymore? I’m curious to see how many innings he will be able to throw this next season...

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2 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Don’t drag me into this. Lol

I just report the facts as I understand them. You guys can argue about them. 

I just appreciate the facts and that you bring common sense to a place where it sometimes, with certain individuals is sorely lacking.  As always I appreciate your participation in a place that probably makes you shake your head in disbelief multiple times a day.  Thanks!

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1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

With this knowledge should the Angels be concerned with him lasting a full year on the mound with out injuries? Maybe his body just can’t handle pitching anymore? I’m curious to see how many innings he will be able to throw this next season...

My guess is he will pitch between 125-140 innings next year.  

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His pitching limits will be closely monitored, just like every other pitcher post elbow surgery. The difference is he can be shut down on the pitching side and still be productive at the plate. Which means they could give him extended rest periods and have him still available come September and the post season, unlike most pitchers that only contribute from the mound and so they start them until they hit their limits.

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1 minute ago, Blarg said:

His pitching limits will be closely monitored, just like every other pitcher post elbow surgery. The difference is he can be shut down on the pitching side and still be productive at the plate. Which means they could give him extended rest periods and have him still available come September and the post season, unlike most pitchers that only contribute from the mound and so they start them until they hit their limits.

Such a great point!  So it’s a matter of perspective.   Some fans will be pissed he isn’t pitching more (not pointing the finger at Kevinb) while the right perspective is he has value to add when he isn’t pitching. 

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19 minutes ago, Blarg said:

His pitching limits will be closely monitored, just like every other pitcher post elbow surgery. The difference is he can be shut down on the pitching side and still be productive at the plate. Which means they could give him extended rest periods and have him still available come September and the post season, unlike most pitchers that only contribute from the mound and so they start them until they hit their limits.

The only reason I bring up the question is because he stated the knee only started bothering him when he began pitching again. I’m not a doctor and I don’t pretend to be one on tv. Just seems the knee might be an issue going forward. We’ve heard of when people get hurt or have issues they tend to throw differently and that in turn causes other body parts to injure. Just curious. But yes agree with both you and strad he will have a ton of value even if he’s shut down pitching because he’s a force at the plate as well. Should be fun to watch next year. If he can do both for a full season and do them at a high level. It would greatly increase the chances of making the playoffs. I know being kind of captain obvious. But should be fun to watch and hoping fir the best. 

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1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

With this knowledge should the Angels be concerned with him lasting a full year on the mound with out injuries? Maybe his body just can’t handle pitching anymore? I’m curious to see how many innings he will be able to throw this next season...

They have treated him pretty conservatively the whole time. The plan next year is for him to pitch once a week, which is probably going to end up being 110-120 innings, and hitting 4 times a week, which will be around 350 PAs. They also have a million ways they monitor the stress on these guys, so I’m sure if they see they need to back off, they will. 

I don’t think pushing anyone too hard is a problem the Angels have had.

Also, this is a bone thing, not a “moving parts” issue, for lack of a better word. It sounds like once it’s fixed, it’s fixed. 

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53 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

We’ve heard of when people get hurt or have issues they tend to throw differently and that in turn causes other body parts to injure.

That’s why they are doing the surgery now. One option was to do it in October, after he completed his pitching rehab, but they were concerned if he was pitching with a knee issue that he’d hurt something else. 

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48 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They have treated him pretty conservatively the whole time. The plan next year is for him to pitch once a week, which is probably going to end up being 110-120 innings, and hitting 4 times a week, which will be around 350 PAs. They also have a million ways they monitor the stress on these guys, so I’m sure if they see they need to back off, they will. 

I don’t think pushing anyone too hard is a problem the Angels have had.

Also, this is a bone thing, not a “moving parts” issue, for lack of a better word. It sounds like once it’s fixed, it’s fixed. 

Jeff, if he pitches once a week, say 25 starts, instead of the 27 Sundays or whatever day, wouldn't he be closer to 140-160 IP? I mean, you have to think he's gonna be 5 IP per start minimum, probably closer to 6 IP avg.

And If he starts as the DH 3.5 times per week, gets 5 PA a game, 3.5 x 5 x 27 = around 470 PA.

 

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19 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Jeff, if he pitches once a week, say 25 starts, instead of the 27 Sundays or whatever day, wouldn't he be closer to 140-160 IP? I mean, you have to think he's gonna be 5 IP per start minimum, probably closer to 6 IP avg.

And If he starts as the DH 3.5 times per week, gets 5 PA a game, 3.5 x 5 x 27 = around 470 PA.

 

Sure. Sounds right. 

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Presuming he returns healthy next season, how will these two injuries/surgeries in successive seasons affect his psyche? 

Remember, he has a lot of international attention and scrutiny. Also factoring in the uniqueness of his two way play, everyone in baseball has been paying attention to what he does. A bit of a sideshow or curiosity  for the casual fan and non Angels media. But Ohtani still has to deal with off field, time consuming distractions unlike any other player.

And in two languages. 

In his first year he handled things remarkably well, and showed his natural talent despite the circus around him. But as with every sophomore, the second year become a more of a challenge. Opposing teams get a book on him, the novelty factor wears off and the cycle of adjustments and adaptation goes on. 

Confidence can get shaken the second year when pure talent faces new challenges. And I think we have seen some of this regarding his hitting mechanics. As well, he seems to be getting fooled more at the plate. Many really wild and off balance swings. 

Pitchers more attuned to his weaknesses?  

And this just as a hitter so far. It remains to be seen how his second year pitching works out. Especially after TJ surgery and a year without throwing. I would think it will be a very delicate process. If he gets hammered early that may also affect his confidence. 

Remember, he came to MLB extremely self confident. He has his list of ideal goals and actually was progressing nicely to those objectives.

Again, assuming he comes back healthy, he will have to continue adjusting as a batter. That is how career great players stay great. And as a pitcher, it may be more complicated. His velocity was elite. Without that he will have to develop a different pattern. At least till we see if his upper limit can be regained. 

Still, all in all a great natural talent and fun to watch. I expect him to settle in as a 15 - 20 homer guy, maybe a 10 - 15 win pitcher. Together, the sum being worth more than each part in terms of his presence.

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1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s why they are doing the surgery now. One option was to do it in October, after he completed his pitching rehab, but they were concerned if he was pitching with a knee issue that he’d hurt something else. 

Yep, makes me think back to when I read up on Dizzy Dean pitching with an injured toe one year and after adjusting his pitching delivery hurt his arm and was never the same again.

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2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s why they are doing the surgery now. One option was to do it in October, after he completed his pitching rehab, but they were concerned if he was pitching with a knee issue that he’d hurt something else. 

The articles I've read on line described that the 2 parts of the knee cap were 1 large main portion and a small piece. Are they going to fuse them or remove the small piece?

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