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Should the Angels add a top tier bat in addition to arms?


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To your main post @Chuckster70 I’d say yes. This year alone (with Upton not existing, Ohtani missing the power and LaStella being injured), this team would have been in contention for the 2nd WC spot if our pitching was better. 

Main bats are Trout, Ohatani, Upton, Adell (maybe) and then the rest is in the air for 2020. So that’s almost 4.

The Angels shouldn’t sign a top bat this year to be serious in 2020. They should solidify pitching during 2020 and 2021 so we can make a strong push for the WC in 2020 and maybe division in 2021, then once Pujols come off the books for 2022 then the Angels might look to drastically improve the offensive side. 

 

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This team needs pitching, pitching and more pitching.  End of story. Let LaStella and Fletcher play full time at 2B/3B as they both have earned it and are cheap.  The only offense upgrade that th

I agree that Arte should nut up.  Do we really want the best player in a generation to never win a playoff game? Frankly that whole narrative is pissing me off and even though it's ignorant, the

after a lot of thought and detailed analysis, I think we need better players for next year than we had this year.  

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

With each passing game I am adding another pitcher to the list of needs. 

We're at roughly 14 right now. No room for hitters, sorry.

I saw an interview with Lorne Michaels a few years back where he said people are always coming up to him and saying "You know what you should do? You should hire another Will Ferrell." As if all you have to do is go down to the local open-mic night and there are Will Ferrells everywhere. 

I want to tell Eppler: "Dude, get a half-dozen more Ohtanis who can pitch AND hit!"

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Emphasis on pitching is the plan while keeping a eye ? on offense. 

I’m sure Eppler has a off season plan but it’s possible he wiffs on top tier pitching. He may have to sign a mid tier pitcher and trade for another top to mid tier pitcher. That would leave money for a offensive upgrade at either catcher/1B, or 3B. 

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There is an angle where adding a bat makes sense - Rendon probably too expensive, Donaldson probably the top of that range - and then pulling the trigger on IF players for a SP to pair with a top FA SP signing. 

Problem is after Donaldson, there isn’t anyone really reliable enough for 3B/2B to justify it, so it sorta has to be him or Rendon, who I don’t really think is likely. So if you don’t get either, you go back to pitching all the way.

I do like that Donaldson offers really strong defense and offense. It makes it a bit easier to part with Simmons at some point in 2020 if we need the money for more pitching. I’m also not sure the prospects he displaces are enough to land a solid SP.

I’m a little unique here, in that I feel like really looking at the next two seasons and offseasons as one specific window to improve in, and not cramming it all into this winter. 

I think we’re just starting a two-year period of some big moves, and it could very well impact both sides of the plate. 

Should the Angels push payroll and keep Goodwin and La Stella, you have a hell of an offense though. Maybe enough to go with Cole, Ohtani, and the kids.

La Stella 2B, Trout CF, Donaldson 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, Goodwin/Adell RF, Stassi C

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23 minutes ago, totdprods said:

2021?

Fletcher SS, Trout CF, Donaldson 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Adell RF, Stassi C, Rengifo 2B

I don't know, Donaldson will be a couple years older as will Upton and Pujols will be a dinosaur. 

Wouldn't it have been nice to have traded the farm for Yelich, @totdprods? Can you imagine the 1-2 punch of Trout, Yelich + Ohtani, Upton, Adell?  Another missed opportunity for Eppler. 

I hope Stassi is backing up a starting catcher in AAA in 2021. The guy has zero bat and so far I haven't seen anything in his defense or pitch framing to warrant a spot as a backup on this team. 

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2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I don't know, Donaldson will be a couple years older as will Upton and Pujols will be a dinosaur. 

Wouldn't it have been nice to have traded the farm for Yelich, @totdprods? Can you imagine the 1-2 punch of Trout, Yelich + Ohtani, Upton, Adell?  Another missed opportunity for Eppler. 

I hope Stassi is backing up a starting catcher in AAA in 2021. The guy has zero bat and so far I haven't seen anything in his defense or pitch framing to warrant a spot as a backup on this team. 

Chuck, how do you acquire Yelich without giving up Adell and everyone else in our farm?  When Yelich was traded he was traded for a guy that was ranked higher than Adell was at the time, as well as three other prospects.  Calling that a missed opportunity would be like getting upset at him for not drafting Bobby Witt Jr this past year.  

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7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I don't know, Donaldson will be a couple years older as will Upton and Pujols will be a dinosaur. 

Wouldn't it have been nice to have traded the farm for Yelich, @totdprods? Can you imagine the 1-2 punch of Trout, Yelich + Ohtani, Upton, Adell?  Another missed opportunity for Eppler. 

I hope Stassi is backing up a starting catcher in AAA in 2021. The guy has zero bat and so far I haven't seen anything in his defense or pitch framing to warrant a spot as a backup on this team. 

I’m giving Stassi the offseason and start of 2020 before I worry. Dude’s barely been here long enough to make any judgements. I’ll let him get a winter of work in with Reed and Wooten for the bat, and more time to digest all the brand new pitchers he’s catching. Keep in mind to that these young Angels pitchers are also pretty new to the Angels themselves. The data analytics team will have this winter to go over what Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, and Canning did in the bigs instead of flimsier minor league data. 

Donaldson gives me a Beltre vibe. Not sure he’ll last as long as he did, but a short-term 2/$40m + option wouldn’t be awful. Insurance at the corners. Frees up the ability to talk Thaiss or Rengifo in a trade now so we’re not limited to Marsh. Defense should be good enough that we can make Simba’s future a little more flexible as well. 

And yes, don’t remind me of Yelich. The Angels didn’t have the prospects to get him. It would’ve cost Adell, probably Canning, and then maybe we could’ve gotten lucky with the other pieces being Jones and Ward. F*ck it. I still would’ve pulled the trigger. I would’ve gladly given up Adell for Yelich to get him next to Trout the next five years. He’ll be hard pressed to match what Yelich has become.

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3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I’m giving Stassi the offseason and start of 2020 before I worry. Dude’s barely been here long enough to make any judgements. I’ll let him get a winter of work in with Reed and Wooten for the bat, and more time to digest all the brand new pitchers he’s catching. Keep in mind to that these young Angels pitchers are also pretty new to the Angels themselves. The data analytics team will have this winter to go over what Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, and Canning did in the bigs instead of flimsier minor league data. 

Donaldson gives me a Beltre vibe. Not sure he’ll last as long as he did, but a short-term 2/$40m + option wouldn’t be awful. Insurance at the corners. Frees up the ability to talk Thaiss or Rengifo in a trade now so we’re not limited to Marsh. Defense should be good enough that we can make Simba’s future a little more flexible as well. 

And yes, don’t remind me of Yelich. The Angels didn’t have the prospects to get him. It would’ve cost Adell, probably Canning, and then maybe we could’ve gotten lucky with the other pieces being Jones and Ward. F*ck it. I still would’ve pulled the trigger. I would’ve gladly given up Adell for Yelich to get him next to Trout the next five years. He’ll be hard pressed to match what Yelich has become.

I would have traded the farm as I said in my post, so Adell, Canning, Thaiss and Jones for the likes of Yelich, and that's even before he went all batshit crazy last season with the Brewers. 

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Except for Betts and JD Martinez, the Red Sox hitters are no better than ours when adjusted for that bandbox they play in.  We need starters, period.  More than one.  Cole and Bumgarner and I am happy.  Clear the money by trading Simmons and declining Kole if you must, but starting pitching has to be improved.  Fletcher and Rengifo can play SS, Thaiss has looked decent at 3B.  LaStella can back everyone up.  

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I think this is a knee jerk reaction to a recent losing streak. Upton is better than this. Ohtani is better than this. So is Trout. They've been missing La Stella, Rengifo is only going to get better and Adell and Marsh are better than most realize.

The offense is going to be good enough.

The Angels aren't good. But their issues are simple to fix. Spend all available money on pitching. I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but I am saying it's simple.

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5 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

To your main post @Chuckster70 I’d say yes. This year alone (with Upton not existing, Ohtani missing the power and LaStella being injured), this team would have been in contention for the 2nd WC spot if our pitching was better. 

Main bats are Trout, Ohatani, Upton, Adell (maybe) and then the rest is in the air for 2020. So that’s almost 4.

The Angels shouldn’t sign a top bat this year to be serious in 2020. They should solidify pitching during 2020 and 2021 so we can make a strong push for the WC in 2020 and maybe division in 2021, then once Pujols come off the books for 2022 then the Angels might look to drastically improve the offensive side. 

 

Hw are we categorizing main bats? Power numbers? Because La Stella was great at the plate before injury. Fletcher has been solid on base and leading off. Simmons had a bat the last two years. He didn’t really have time to get out of his mini slump this year before getting injured. Since then, he’s been returning quickly and I doubt he’s 100%. Despite a lot of injuries, the Halo offense has been inside he top ten all year.

People can say Calhoun will be gone next year, but actually Calhoun’s numbers haven’t been substantially above average outside of increased power.

I genuinely don’t know where we would add if we did add a bat. DH isn’t available for more than occasional at bats. I don’t want to change up the left side of the infield with Simmons, Fletcher, La Stella, and Rengifo, and I doubt the front office is even considering the possibility. Pujols isn’t retiring, so there’re few enough at bats at first base. If anyone thinks they’re adding an outfielder, they’re nuts. So unless, they go for an upgrade at catcher, this is it. 

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The Angels are 6th in the AL in runs scored, 3rd in BB%, 5th in OBP, and they're the 2nd toughest team to strikeout. This is despite missing Upton for the first half (and him sucking since coming back), missing LaStella for half the year, Simmons having a bad year, Ohtani missing the first month etc... Not to mention having a low BABIP so they've been a bit unlucky.

Meanwhile, Angels starters have the 3rd highest ERA (5.36), the 3rd highest BB% (3.33), the 4th highest HR/9. Oh and their BABIP is the 4th lowest, so they've actually been lucky. Oh oh and they have the fewest innings pitched.

Soooo yeah, we kinda need to value pitching over offense this winter. It's bad. It's bad.

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1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

The Angels are 6th in the AL in runs scored, 3rd in BB%, 5th in OBP, and they're the 2nd toughest team to strikeout. This is despite missing Upton for the first half (and him sucking since coming back), missing LaStella for half the year, Simmons having a bad year, Ohtani missing the first month etc... Not to mention having a low BABIP so they've been a bit unlucky.

Meanwhile, Angels starters have the 3rd highest ERA (5.36), the 3rd highest BB% (3.33), the 4th highest HR/9. Oh and their BABIP is the 4th lowest, so they've actually been lucky. Oh oh and they have the fewest innings pitched.

Soooo yeah, we kinda need to value pitching over offense this winter. It's bad. It's bad.

Should also point out the Angels have the 3rd lowest BABIP in baseball. So they've suffered from shit luck and are still a good offensive team.

I'd love to add another bat but I just don't think it's in the cards this year. We have limited resources and it all needs to go to pitching. We need at least 2 starters, possibly 3. 

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I agree with Chuck's point. This offense can be pretty uninspiring. If there was a way to trade in some of the superfluoty for a Donaldson type, I'd be all for it. 

That being said, this team needs to drop like $60 mil annually on pitching to fix the staff. Cole, Bumgarner, and Odorizzi - bring all three in.

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For those of you wanting Donaldson what would be the secondary move?  Trade La Stella?  Trade Fletcher?  Trade Rengifo?  Use one of Fletcher or Rengifo for the utility role?  I ask because we obviously saw a really nice half a season from La Stella but he is still a question mark, though a very affordable question mark.  Fletcher is having another really nice season, probably finish around a 3 win player.  Rengifo has held his own in his rookie season.  He hasn’t been great, but probably end up being a 2 win player.  He’s made a lot of errors, but still rates out pretty well defensively.  I love that his OBP is 85 points higher than his batting average.  He also has 7 home runs, which by today’s standards isn’t saying much, but it is 2 more than Fletcher in about 200 less at bats.  I like the offense when it is healthy, assuming we see La Stella be close to what he provided this year and Rengifo continues to develop.  So Catcher is the obvious black hole in the line up, with Grandall sitting there in the free agent market.  I’d much rather solve pitching before exploring the thought of signing him.

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3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Soooo yeah, we kinda need to value pitching over offense this winter. It's bad. It's bad.

Nobody is arguing that getting starting pitching is a priority. My argument is we may need one more legit bat too.

If those juiced baseballs go away next season La Stella may be half the guy we saw in terms of power numbers. so I'm not sure we should count on him.

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5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Nobody is arguing that getting starting pitching is a priority. My argument is we may need one more legit bat too.

If those juiced baseballs go away next season La Stella may be half the guy we saw in terms of power numbers. so I'm not sure we should count on him.

It's more of a luxury at this point. If Arte is willing to spend the money to add a bat then hell yeah. IDGAF it's not my money. But we have no indication that he will and we shouldn't be using whatever resources we have on offense when we don't have a single pitcher hitting 100 innings this year.

Cole or Strasburg will get at least $25 million a year. Eppler could maybe swing a trade for a Boyd type to save money, but goodbye Marsh and Soriano. Then we have, what, $10-15 million to add a bat? That's not going to get a significant piece. The only way we get a significant offensive piece is if we stay away from Cole/Strasburg and sign Odorizzi, then trade for a pitcher. That seems really, really dumb to me. 

Sure, you could F*ck around and backload a contract so we can somehow get Cole and a guy like Donaldson. But at that point we're playing with Arte's money. 

I just don't see this happening unless Arte is willing to expand payroll. 

 

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