What do you want the 2020 starting line up to be

[tdawg87]

57 minutes ago, eligrba said:

7.  have healthy players all year

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 minutes ago, RBM said:

I agree completely but my point is with a private company it is easier to assume more risk therefore the analogy of Arte Moreno vs. General Motors is not a good one.

So you can be mad at one person instead of a whole company. Doesn’t change the end result that the company can spend whatever it wants. 

[tdawg87]

@Jeff Fletcher I know it's still early but is there any indication Arte might be willing to expand payroll this off-season now that Trout is signed? You said $35 million which I'm assuming is a reasonable estimate on your part. That's about enough for Cole and a reclamation project. 

Obviously trades are a thing but it seems like we could make a serious upgrade to the rotation with, say $45 million. Could Eppler sign a Wheeler type for $18 million and then consider Cole to be "the right player"?

Just thinking aloud here. We need serious help in this rotation.

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

@Jeff Fletcher I know it's still early but is there any indication Arte might be willing to expand payroll this off-season now that Trout is signed? You said $35 million which I'm assuming is a reasonable estimate on your part. That's about enough for Cole and a reclamation project. 

Obviously trades are a thing but it seems like we could make a serious upgrade to the rotation with, say $45 million. Could Eppler sign a Wheeler type for $18 million and then consider Cole to be "the right player"?

Just thinking aloud here. We need serious help in this rotation.

It’s possible. I used $35M as a conservative estimate so you guys don’t get your hopes up. Maybe it’ll be like $37-39M? 

Also, bear in mind that’s actual payroll. Not AAV.

Maybe they sign Cole for 6/180 but only pay him $24M in 2020 (and have the salary jump a lot in 2022 when Pujols is off the books)?

There are a lot of ways they can do it. But in general I would assume that, no matter how they slice it, if Cole is one of the acquisitions, the second one would be a trade or a buy-low bargain FA. 

Or maybe Arte changes his mind and decides he can spend more? I’m just basing my estimate on the fact that normally their actual payroll is around $175-180M. 

[Chuck]

Upton is playing himself into the wrong side of a platoon with Goodwin for LF next season. 

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Upton is playing himself into the wrong side of a platoon with Goodwin for LF next season. 

Nope. Goodwin is earning the RF spot though. 

Yes, Upton is awful right now. I have faith he will return to the norm next year. If not, we certainly have options.

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Nope. Goodwin is earning the RF spot though. 

Yes, Upton is awful right now. I have faith he will return to the norm next year. If not, we certainly have options.

I'm hoping Adell plays himself into the starting RF spot with a solid ST, like he had this last one. I'd rather Upton and Goodwin platoon, though Goodwin hits lefties better than Upton. 

[tdawg87]

I like Goodwin, but I think people are jumping the gun a bit on him. His .364 BABIP scares me. And it's not like he's batting .330. He's hitting .286. If that BABIP normalizes he's basically a .240 hitter with terrible defense and decent pop. Upton on the other end is suffering from a .265 BABIP. If that normalizes....he's a .240 hitter with terrible defense and good pop. Edge: Upton. 

[Chuck]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I like Goodwin, but I think people are jumping the gun a bit on him. His .364 BABIP scares me. And it's not like he's batting .330. He's hitting .286. If that BABIP normalizes he's basically a .240 hitter with terrible defense and decent pop. Upton on the other end is suffering from a .265 BABIP. If that normalizes....he's a .240 hitter with terrible defense and good pop. Edge: Upton. 

From my evaluation Goodwin is a way better defender than Upton. 

Goodwin may have a high BABIP, but he drives the ball much better than Upton. Goodwin hits righties really well, slashing .292/.355/.522 on the season. 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

From my evaluation Goodwin is a way better defender than Upton. 

Goodwin may have a high BABIP, but he drives the ball much better than Upton. Goodwin hits righties really well, slashing .292/.355/.522 on the season. 

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Like I said I like Goodwin. I just think Upton is far better than he's currently showing. 

That said, I'm glad we have Goodwin. He's a spark plug. Upton has been a butt plug.

[Chuck]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Like I said I like Goodwin. I just think Upton is far better than he's currently showing. 

That said, I'm glad we have Goodwin. He's a spark plug. Upton has been a butt plug.

Haha, no doubt. 

Can you image how shitty the Angels would be without La Stella and Goodwin this season? Both players were acquired to be backups and ended up playing their way into a full-time starting role. 

Eppler lucked out. Without those two, the guys who he acquired or signed to start or close out ball games in Cahill, Harvey, Cozart, Allen and Upton have been utter shit this season. 

[Angelsjunky]

Upton is far more likely to be a good regular next year than Goodwin, but the gap seems narrower than it was before the year started. 

Anyhow, there's reason to think he can keep at least some of his gains. I don't expect .290/.850 next year, but maybe .250/.800? That would still be solid, and in line with a lesser Upton year. But more importantly, a decent placeholder until Adell is ready.

[IheartLA]

1. Fletcher

Trout

Ohtani

Upton

La Stella

Pujols

Simmons

Adell

Smith

bench: Stassi, Thaiss, Rengifo, Goodwin

 

 

 

 

 

[Claude]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. Like I said I like Goodwin. I just think Upton is far better than he's currently showing. 

That said, I'm glad we have Goodwin. He's a spark plug. Upton has been a butt plug.

We have to stop thinking that superstar Diamondback Justin Upton is going to show up. He’s not that guy anymore. His defense has regressed, his hitting has done the same and if you haven’t noticed his running game is nonexistent. He’s not a superstar player anymore but just because they’re paying him superstar money doesn’t mean he’s going to be one. He’s basically an average player with some pop. 

[Lou]

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Lou said:

The good news is since we are going to wait until next year to see if he bounces back, I guess we won’t be seeing post after post after post about him from at least one dude.  

[Angelsjunky]

43 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

We have to stop thinking that superstar Diamondback Justin Upton is going to show up. He’s not that guy anymore. His defense has regressed, his hitting has done the same and if you haven’t noticed his running game is nonexistent. He’s not a superstar player anymore but just because they’re paying him superstar money doesn’t mean he’s going to be one. He’s basically an average player with some pop. 

Upton has never really been a "superstar," more of a lesser star. Consider:

Fangraphs defines "superstar" as 5-6 WAR, with MVP as 6+ WAR. I personally think those are rather liberal definitions and would be a bit more stringent, but let's go with that. 

Upton's in his 12th full-time season, not including 2007 when he played 43 games as a 19-year old. Here are his fWAR, from highest to lowest:

6.3, 5.2, 4.9, 3.7, 3.5, 3.4, 3.1, 2.5, 2.5, 1.9, 0.6, -0.1

The median is between 3.4 and 3.1, or 3.25, which fits into Fangraphs' category of "good player."

Now let's color code them, using Fangraphs definitions: MVP (6+), superstar (5-6), all-star (4-5), good player (3-4), solid starter (2-3), role player (1-2), scrub (0-1).

6.3, 5.2, 4.9, 3.7, 3.5, 3.4, 3.1, 2.5, 2.5, 1.9, 0.6, -0.1.

As you can see, that's quite a range. But it is also clear that the "center of gravity" is as a "good player, with three seasons in the all-star or better range, two average, and three in the below average for a starter (role player/scrub).

So you're judging his performance based upon his two very best seasons, maybe three if we're generous about that 4.9 and round it up.

I know WAR isn't everything. But I think we have to at least take it into account, if not--as I think--the overall best statistical measurement of a player's value, even if it is imperfect.

The point being, let's not worry about Upton being a "superstar," because he's never really been a superstar. He's been a good player, with several seasons in the all-star or better range, and a few below. He's pretty much the defintion of a "borderline star."

Do I think he can return to his center of gravity, of 3-4 WAR for a year or two? Probably, especially when you look at his .265 BABIP this year, compared to .325 for his career. Even more to the point: he deserves the benefit of the doubt, and not just kneejerkism from a bad third of a season that we've seen this year. 

[totdprods]

He’s also streaky as F*ck and a red-hot September makes him look about as good as usual, at least in terms of a slash line. He’s had months where he’s hit 10+ HR too, could still finish with 20 despite missing half the year. 

[Troll Daddy]

I’ll be happy if Kole Calhoun is in the lineup next season. Please, you don’t have to convince me he won’t. You turds have already done a good job convincing me ... not that I needed convincing. DocHalo said we can sign him for 2yrs/$12M. 

I also wouldn’t mind seeing Trout batting third. Mainly because Upton hasn’t been very productive batting behind Trout. 

Fletcher

La Stella

Trout

Upton

Pujols

Calhoun

Simmons 

La Stella 

Catcher

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

31 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’ll be happy if Kole Calhoun is in the lineup next season. Please, you don’t have to convince me he won’t. You turds have already done a good job convincing me ... not that I needed convincing. DocHalo said we can sign him for 2yrs/$12M. 

I also wouldn’t mind seeing Trout batting third. Mainly because Upton hasn’t been very productive batting behind Trout. 

Fletcher

La Stella

Trout

Upton

Pujols

Calhoun

Simmons 

La Stella 

Catcher

 

Personally I think they’d be better with Trout in 2 spots. 

[Troll Daddy]

17 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Personally I think they’d be better with Trout in 2 spots. 

He’d be awesome in two spots 

[Tank]

49 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Personally I think they’d be better with Trout in 2 spots. 

let me make a couple of calls.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’ll be happy if Kole Calhoun is in the lineup next season. Please, you don’t have to convince me he won’t. You turds have already done a good job convincing me ... not that I needed convincing. DocHalo said we can sign him for 2yrs/$12M. 

I also wouldn’t mind seeing Trout batting third. Mainly because Upton hasn’t been very productive batting behind Trout. 

Fletcher

La Stella

Trout

Upton

Pujols

Calhoun

Simmons 

La Stella 

Catcher

 

we could trade one of the La Stellas for a pitcher.  and I think we can get Kole for a 1yr deal.  

[Claude]

Ok so middle of the order...

1)

2) Trout

3) Ohtani

4) Pujols

5) Upton

6) Simmons

That seems to work well once in a blue moon.