What do you want the 2020 starting line up to be

[mulwin444]

2 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

Yeah, weird that nobody is beating down this guy's door...

[tdawg87]

3 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Yeah, weird that nobody is beating down this guy's door...

[mulwin444]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I said door!

[Chuck]

My 2020 lineup

2B David Fletcher

CF  MikeTrout

DH Shohei Ohtani

3B Tommy La Stella

LF Upton/Goodwin (straight platoon)

RF Jo Adell

C Travis d'Arnaud (FA signing)

1B Pujols/Walsh/Thaiss

SS Andrelton Simmons

 

Without Ohtani

2B David Fletcher

CF MikeTrout

LF Upton/Goodwin (straight platoon)

3B La Stella

RF Jo Adell

C Travis d'Arnaud (FA Signing)

DH Pujols

1B Walsh/Thaiss

SS Simmons

 

Rotation

Gerrit Cole (FA signing)

Stephen Strasburg (FA signing)

Shohei Ohtani

Andrew Heaney

Griffin Canning/Patrick Sandoval

 

The Angels save on letting Calhoun go and other contracts are off the table, Arte opens the wallet and signs the top two FA pitchers to go all in... shattering the luxury tax.

 

[Docwaukee]

If we're talking ideal lineup, I would rethink the Stassi acquisition.  Maybe he ends up as the backup, but I just catch watch him hit below .200 for an entire season and I am not confident that some extreme makeover is actually going to result in him being a capable hitter.  

I understand that Eppler didn't want to spend any money on a catcher this off season, but I am wholly disappointed in the option he chose and I don't see it as a good start to 2020.  

It also makes me think that Eppler knows the budget for 2020 (of course he does) and knowing how much work the staff needs, he went for the cheap option at C.  As @Jeff Fletcher has mentioned many times, championship teams punt a lineup spot all the time without issue.  I guess that's gonna happen but I'm not excited about it.  

My ideal option would have been Grandal who I think is the perfect fit for this team.  He can also play 1b and satisfies the other part of my 2020 plan which is to move on from Albert.  It's time.  It also accomplishes another goal of making a bunch of guys expendable.  Maybe Thaiss, Ward, Walsh, Rojas don't have tremendous trade value, but I would like to think that some combo of those guys can get you a decent controlled pitcher and obviate the need to spend on that third SP in free agency.  I would rather have Grandal and a back end starter in trade then Stassi and probably a little bit better of a pitching option via FAcy.  

But I think it is what it is.  

But I'll stick with what I'd like to see happen (vs. RHer/vs. LHer)

Rengifo 2b/Fletcher 3b
Trout CF
Ohtani DH/Grandal C
Grandal C/Upton LF
Upton LF/La Stella 1b
La Stella 1b/Simmons SS
Simmons SS/Albert DH
Goodwin RF/Herm RF
Fletcher 3b/Rengifo 2b

So I've conceded that Albert is still going to be with the team.  Maybe we see a bunch of games with Grandal at 1b or DH and Stassi at C.  I know Grandal is on the wrong side of 30, but he's a really good hitter and complements the lineup really well.  He just makes a lot of sense for this team.  

 

[Chuck]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

If we're talking ideal lineup, I would rethink the Stassi acquisition.  Maybe he ends up as the backup, but I just catch watch him hit below .200 for an entire season and I am not confident that some extreme makeover is actually going to result in him being a capable hitter.  

I understand that Eppler didn't want to spend any money on a catcher this off season, but I am wholly disappointed in the option he chose and I don't see it as a good start to 2020.  

It also makes me think that Eppler knows the budget for 2020 (of course he does) and knowing how much work the staff needs, he went for the cheap option at C.  As @Jeff Fletcher has mentioned many times, championship teams punt a lineup spot all the time without issue.  I guess that's gonna happen but I'm not excited about it.  

My ideal option would have been Grandal who I think is the perfect fit for this team.  He can also play 1b and satisfies the other part of my 2020 plan which is to move on from Albert.  It's time.  It also accomplishes another goal of making a bunch of guys expendable.  Maybe Thaiss, Ward, Walsh, Rojas don't have tremendous trade value, but I would like to think that some combo of those guys can get you a decent controlled pitcher and obviate the need to spend on that third SP in free agency.  I would rather have Grandal and a back end starter in trade then Stassi and probably a little bit better of a pitching option via FAcy.  

But I think it is what it is.  

But I'll stick with what I'd like to see happen (vs. RHer/vs. LHer)

Rengifo 2b/Fletcher 3b
Trout CF
Ohtani DH/Grandal C
Grandal C/Upton LF
Upton LF/La Stella 1b
La Stella 1b/Simmons SS
Simmons SS/Albert DH
Goodwin RF/Herm RF
Fletcher 3b/Rengifo 2b

So I've conceded that Albert is still going to be with the team.  Maybe we see a bunch of games with Grandal at 1b or DH and Stassi at C.  I know Grandal is on the wrong side of 30, but he's a really good hitter and complements the lineup really well.  He just makes a lot of sense for this team.  

 

Grandal isn't a FA until 2021. 

Stassi sucks, at best he's a backup but his bat doesn't play up. Is he worth keeping just for his defense?

I mean, Stassi makes Maldonado look like Mike Trout. 

[totdprods]

A lot of it hinges on whether or not we sign Gerrit Cole, and how the trade market plays out for SP help. I can't help but look at the enormous glut of infielders have and not think at least two of them can be involved to land someone of quality without hurting the MLB team. 
I also think it's really hard to forecast things right now because a lot of things can happen in September that change course. If Barria and Sandoval can keep putting up decent starts, and Suarez starts looking more like a 4.50 ERA guy instead of a 6.50 guy, I do think there's a chance Eppler leans on the kids a bit more next year. The more guys like Thaiss and Rengifo produce, the likelier they hold down a position next year...and the more they also boost their trade value. If Walsh, Ward, or Rojas mash in some limited at-bats, it can really change how expendable others are as well.

[Chuck]

Just now, totdprods said:

A lot of it hinges on whether or not we sign Gerrit Cole, and how the trade market plays out for SP help. I can't help but look at the enormous glut of infielders have and not think at least two of them can be involved to land someone of quality without hurting the MLB team. 
I also think it's really hard to forecast things right now because a lot of things can happen in September that change course. If Barria and Sandoval can keep putting up decent starts, and Suarez starts looking more like a 4.50 ERA guy instead of a 6.50 guy, I do think there's a chance Eppler leans on the kids a bit more next year. The more guys like Thaiss and Rengifo produce, the likelier they hold down a position next year...and the more they also boost their trade value. If Walsh, Ward, or Rojas mash in some limited at-bats, it can really change how expendable others are as well.

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not really optimistic about Jose Suarez. 

I know he's just 21 years old, but there's nothing really to like about his breaking ball and fastball so far. He's got a good changeup though, so maybe if his FB ticks up and he can get a tighter spin on his breaking ball that will change. 

[totdprods]

I imagine Stassi has been putting most of his focus into learning the staff and working on whatever defensive/catching/pitching relevant data the Angels are working since arriving too, as that’s frequently mentioned being the Angels’ priority for that position.

I think a full offseason and ST working with Reed, Wooten, etc. might still offer some hope for him offensively. Keep Smith or get an offense-oriented back-up vet and see what happens. We got him to be a potential long-term piece, let’s not give up a month in.

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I may be in the minority here, but I'm not really optimistic about Jose Suarez. 

I know he's just 21 years old, but there's nothing really to like about his breaking ball and fastball so far. He's got a good changeup though, so maybe if his FB ticks up and he can get a tighter spin on his breaking ball that will change. 

Personally,  I see him and Barria being comparable in terms of floor and ceiling. I could see Suarez getting a look in relief similar to Alvarez in time as well. I still think he’s useful for the ‘20 Angels in the #5-#6 MLB/AAA carousel. He’s also the first SP I’d include in a trade for another. 

[totdprods]

As I said, a lot can change based on September performances, but as of right now this would be a great, bold, balanced realistic offseason plan for me...

• sign Gerrit Cole, say, 6/$180m
• sign Josh Donaldson, 3/$60m
• trade for Matt Boyd leaning heavily on a trio of names from Suarez, Thaiss, Marsh, Jones, Rengifo, Walsh, Ward, Rojas, La Stella, Jackson, Knowles, A/A+ arms, Deveaux. I’ll guess a combo of three of Suarez, Marsh, Thaiss, Rengifo, and Ward. 
• non-tender Garcia, JC, Trop, Bour, maybe Noe to trim a few more mil, decline Kole’s option
• Explore trade market for Bedrosian, Robles, really one of any of our relievers
• Explore trade market on Simmons, La Stella, and Goodwin, specifically for SP, RP, or C help, and to also potentially trim salary
• Stay in on FA RPs and catchers for bargains
• Try and sign this offseason’s version of Gio or Miley

Cole for obvious reasons. Boyd I know is polarizing, but I have faith and trades are often gambles. I love the control and salary, and I love that the Tigers are one of the few teams that might trade a good SP and not require a lot of, if any, pitching prospects in return. Eppler and Avila have enough history I think they can swing a deal that isn’t too painful. Perhaps the Angels can scrape a reliever like Farmer or Jimenez back too. 

Donaldson is brought in because he’s still excellent defensively and offensively. With Simmons, we have crazy defense on the left side. If we have to part with Simmons in the offseason, we still have some strong defense at 3B to help ease in the new SS. He can also cover 1B. Could be Beltre 2.0. He gives us a solid long-term stopgap and some insurance if Upton crashes or if the rookies fail to pan out. Few of our IF prospects are likely to match his offensive or defensive production, even at his age, and it frees up almost any combo of players in a trade for a cheap, controlled SP - which is exactly what we need due to the money spent on Cole and Josh.

They mostly hold onto the rest, maybe flipping La Stella for pitching help, depending on what infielders are dealt, but I’m inclined to keep him. They nab a bargain #5 a la Gio/Miley, maybe Matt Moore*, Smyly, Nova, Anderson, and go it from there.

• Rotation: Cole, Ohtani, Boyd, Heaney, Canning, Moore* (Pena, Barria, Sandoval, Peters as depth)
• Lineup: La Stella 2B, Trout CF, Donaldson 3B, Ohtani DH, Upton LF, Pujols 1B, Simmons SS, Goodwin RF, Stassi C
• Bench: Smith C, Fletcher UT IF, Cozart UT IF, Ward/Thaiss CIF, Hermosillo OF
• Bullpen: Robles, Bedrosian, Buttrey, Middleton, Anderson, Ramirez, Pena, Cole, Del Pozo, Jewell, etc.

I’ll assume Suarez is dealt, Rengifo gets stuck in AAA because of a healthy Cozart, or also dealt, and one of Ward/Thaiss is dealt in the Boyd deal. 

I realize this plan doesn’t address pitching nearly as much as most would expect, but adding Cole and Boyd, a gamble #5, with Ohtani returning and growth from young pitching could be a lot better than we’d think. Throw another .800-.900 OPS bat into the corner infield and a stocked pen, I think we’d be in great shape. Also, say Adell is all we hope for, and Donaldson maintains, and La Stella isn’t a fluke...that offense becomes utterly insane. Right up there with HOU, BOS, NYY, and probably enough to outweigh any issues relying on the kids in back of the rotation.

I’m getting more excited about Barria and Sandoval and don’t really want to clog up rotation spots or payroll on Odorizzi or Wheeler types for 3+ years because of our PTSD. These guys are gonna be solid MLB SPs within a year or two tops, and Bradish, Soriano, Yan, plus a couple others aren’t far behind. If it doesn’t work out in 2020, we will have Simmons and Cozart off the books following the season and Stroman, Ray, Tanaka, Paxton, an Astrofied Aaron Sanchez, Minor, Walker, etc. will hit FA and we can sign another arm then. 

Edited August 31, 2019 by totdprods

[Jeff Fletcher]

16 minutes ago, totdprods said:

• sign Gerrit Cole, say, 6/$180m
• sign Josh Donaldson, 3/$60m
• trade for Matt Boyd

Can you fit all of them into $35M salary for 2020?

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Can you fit all of them into $35M salary for 2020?

Not easily! I figure it comes with a combination of back-loaded contracts, Arte giving a bit of wiggle room, non-tenders for Bour, JC, Garcia, Trop, maybe Noe or even Pena, and potentially dealing one or two of Robles, Bedrosian, La Stella, Smith, or Goodwin to free up another mil or three here and there. I also assume $30m annually for 6 and $20m annually for 3 for Josh are about the Max they’ll either get or max the Angels could do. 

To me, it’s less about building a massive, heavy contending 2020 team, and more about 2021-2022, when Adell, Canning, Sandoval, Barria, Buttrey, Rengifo, Thaiss, etc. have really adjusted and start to produce. So if they stop after Cole, Donaldson, and Boyd and go with waiver claims and internal options for the rest of the 2020 needs, it’s not a big concern for me. Pujols and Upton come off following those seasons so the Halos can use that money to tweak any spots where the youngsters fall short.

I still think we’re a year away from really seeing something closer to the final product we’ve been building to.

Edited August 31, 2019 by totdprods

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Grandal isn't a FA until 2021. 

Stassi sucks, at best he's a backup but his bat doesn't play up. Is he worth keeping just for his defense?

I mean, Stassi makes Maldonado look like Mike Trout. 

he has a 2020 mutual option with a 2.25m buyout which he'll decline.  He'll be a free agent this year.  

[Claude]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Can you fit all of them into $35M salary for 2020?

Is there any particular reason why the Angels won’t spend let’s say, $195M?

[Stradling]

With Girardi we have no deaths and no injured pitchers, dummies.  

[Chuck]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

he has a 2020 mutual option with a 2.25m buyout which he'll decline.  He'll be a free agent this year.  

Oh that's good. He should be our #3 priority after signing Cole and another top tier starting pitcher. 

I know Heaney has looked good of late, but I'd feel more comfortable going into 2020 with him as our #4 guy, with one of our rookies battling it out for #5. 

[Tank]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

That place reeks hard of cucumbers.

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 hours ago, Calzone 2 said:

Is there any particular reason why the Angels won’t spend let’s say, $195M?

The same reason that a car company sells cars for $25,000 instead of $22,000

[tdawg87]

Just now, Jeff Fletcher said:

The same reason that a car company sells cars for $25,000 instead of $22,000

[Pancake Bear]

Fletcher

Trout

Ohtani

Upton

La Stella

Simmons

Goodwin

Smith

Rengifo

Bench: Stassi, Pujols, Hermosillo, Thaiss

SP Gerrit Cole

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Fletcher 3B

Trout CF

Ohtani DH

Adell RF

Simmons SS

La Stella 2B

Upton/Goodwin LF

Pujols 1B

Free Agent/traded C

[Jeff Fletcher]

5 minutes ago, RBM said:

Nope. The economic principles are not the same. Bad analogy.

The point is companies all set their own budgets based on their revenues, expenses and expected profits. 

The Angels spend what they want to spend in order to make the profit they want to make. Just like a car company charges what it wants to charge in order to make the profit it wants to make. 

[eligrba]

Whatever it needs to be to:

1.  make the playoffs

2.  beat the Rangers in Texas

3.  beat the Astros in general

4.  beat the Red Sox all of the time

5.  beat the Yankees all of the time (I want the curse on the Yankees to be reborn.)

6.  go undefeated against the Mariners

7.  have healthy players all year

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, RBM said:

Yes but the Angels only have one shareholder. Tremendous difference in planning and execution.

The company has a right to set its own budget. Whether the “company” decisions are based on one person or 10 or 1,000 doesn’t change that.