So you think you know baseball

[Nowani]

I'm in the process of writing a book centered around the bizarre/rare events and least known rules and possibilities in a MLB game. some of these have never happened and some have only happened once or twice in the games history.

 

I will post some of these from now and then. Here is the first. Try not to look it up. Instead use your intuition or what you currently know about the game. I eventually had to look all these up but thinking about the possibilities before I did that was the fun part.

 

A batted ball hits the mound rubber and ricochets into the dugout on the third base side, what's the ruling? What if the ball ricochets back to the catcher before hitting the ground and he catches it?

 

 

[fan_since79]

I'm guessing ground rule double on the ball into the dugout.

[Willy J.]

I'm guessing ground rule double as well because the rubber would be part of the ground.

 

If the catcher caught it off the rubber, it's be a live ball, not an auto out.

[Mile High Dreams]

Trick question....the rubber isn't actually made of rubber....what do I win?

[Redondo]

I'm guessing ground rule double as well because the rubber would be part of the ground.

 

If the catcher caught it off the rubber, it's be a live ball, not an auto out.

 

 I agree with this.

 

The rubber is attached to the ground so it would not be an out it would be a live ball

when the catcher gets it.

 

Ground rule double on the first one.

[Nowani]

Also, let me clarify the 2nd question. The Catcher is in fair territory when he catches it.

[deepdrive]

I would think (1) foul ball and (2) ball in play.

[Docwaukee]

I can't imagine that the mound would be treated any differently than a base.  If the same scenario happens yet it's the second base bag instead then ground rule double and live ball for the second scenario. 

[Bruce Nye]

I'll say the hitter is awarded 1st base on the first question.

 

The ball is in play, but not out in the 2nd question.

[LAA Road Tripper]

So after 12 years monitoring this and, back in the day the ESPN board, keeping an AngelsWin tab open on multiple devices daily I finally created an account. (BTW, there's got to be an entire population of folks like me.) A little of my background. Been an Angels fan ever since I was kid in the 70s. I was four people deep near the left field foul pole in the ninth inning of Game 5 in the '86 ALCS in utter disbelief as Henderson's ball soared over Brian Downing's head. I attended every playoff and World Series game in '02 with the exception of Game 4 vs. Minnesota and I've seen a game at every current MLB ballpark. I feel like I know much of the cast of characters that post here often. But I digress. To the topic at hand.

1) Gotta agree with Deepdrive. Ball never passes a base and is never touched before ending up in the dugout. Foul ball.

2) Ball in play.

[fan_since79]

Ball hits the mound (fair territory) then caroms into the dugout. It has to be a ground-rule double. How is that a foul ball?

[LAA Road Tripper]

Well, I would think it's similar to a ball rolling down the 1st or 3rd base line. If it hits a rock and skips foul before passing the base and is never touched by a player, then it's a foul ball. Unless there's some provision for the pitching rubber which seems obscure then I would think that's the ruling.

[seenoevil]

1. foul ball - ball went out of play before 3rd base, without a player touching the ball.

 

2. If the catcher is out of play, then it's a foul ball. If the Catcher for some reason steps onto the playing field, then it's the live ball, where the catcher has to tag the hitter or throw him out @ 1st

[Bruce Nye]

If the ball hits the pitcher and then caroms into the dugout, the hitter is awarded 1B, no?

 

What's the difference?  The rubber, an umpire and player are part of the field of play.

[CaliAngel]

Doesn't matter. 

 

It's a Yankee game and the umps reward Posada with an inside the park homer. 

[LAA Road Tripper]

Bruce, I think the differentiator is the player. You definitely have a point if the ball is hit off the pitcher (in fair territory) and caroms off foul. Fair ball. But to extend your point further, if a ball is hit off the plate then rolls up the 3rd base line 30 feet and goes foul it's ruled to be a foul ball. Seems like the same shoul be true if the ball hits the rubber.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Assuming that the ball hasn't passed the third base bag when it goes into the dugout, it's a foul ball, like a bunt that starts out fair and rolls outside the line.

 

If it ricochets back to the catcher in fair territory it is then a fair ball and in play. Hope that the batter didn't stand in the batter's box watching all this happen.

 

Funny incident from my sandlot baseball days. A friend of mine who was, shall we say, not the fleetest baserunner to ever come to the plate, hit a clean single to left - or so it appeared. The left fielder, who had a pretty good arm, threw him out at first base. I have seen right fielders do this on occasion, but that is the first and only time I've seen a 7-3 putout (other than runners being doubled off after a caught fly ball).

[Justabitoutside]

1. foul ball - ball went out of play before 3rd base, without a player touching the ball.

 

2. If the catcher is out of play, then it's a foul ball. If the Catcher for some reason steps onto the playing field, then it's the live ball, where the catcher has to tag the hitter or throw him out @ 1st

This.

[Bruce Nye]

When do we get the answer?

[DW711]

I'm in the process of writing a book centered around the bizarre/rare events and least known rules and possibilities in a MLB game. some of these have never happened and some have only happened once or twice in the games history.

 

I will post some of these from now and then. Here is the first. Try not to look it up. Instead use your intuition or what you currently know about the game. I eventually had to look all these up but thinking about the possibilities before I did that was the fun part.

 

A batted ball hits the mound rubber and ricochets into the dugout on the third base side, what's the ruling? What if the ball ricochets back to the catcher before hitting the ground and he catches it?

 

I'm trying my best not to look at what other people are writing. For the first question..I guess it depends how fast the runner is/ball is rolling. It rolls in while the runner is rounding 1st..double..before..single.

 

2nd question...it's a ground ball in my book (and fair).

[stormngt]

Ball hits the mound (fair territory) then caroms into the dugout. It has to be a ground-rule double. How is that a foul ball?

doesn't cross first or third base.

[Justabitoutside]

Just as Vegas fan stated, no difference than a fair bunt that rolls foul.

[Bruce Nye]

So the OP didn't respnd?

 

Nice.

[LBHalos17]

Interesting questions you have here... I've seen the ball hit the rubber and pop straight up, but never into foul-territory.

 

I think the ball off the rubber going out of play inside of the 90' baselines is a foul-ball (because I don't imagine the rubber counts as a fair/foul marker like the bags or poles).

 

The second incident depends on where the catcher makes contact with the ball; in fair or foul territory.

[Nowani]

OK here are the answers:

 

From MLB rulebook section 2.0 under definition FOUL BALL:

 

Rule 2.00 (Foul Ball) Comment: A batted ball not touched by a fielder, which hits the pitcher’s

rubber and rebounds into foul territory, between home and first, or between home and third base is a foul ball. 

 

So question one answer  is Foul ball

Question two is not specifically addressed in the rule book but it has to be ruled as a ground ball in play.

 

I had heard verbally from one source awhile back that it was an out (if caught in the air) but I looked everywhere and only found that it's a fair ball ruled as a grounder. The same baseball rule in section 2.0 definition FAIR BALL I believe covers this..

 

A FAIR BALL is a batted ball that settles on fair ground between home and first

base, or between home and third base, or that is on or over fair territory when bounding to

the outfield past first or third base, or that touches first, second or third base, or that first

falls on fair territory on or beyond first base or third base, or.....

 

Hitting the rubber would be considered fair ground.

 

I don't think this has ever happened in a MLB game especially with the perfection in which mounds are maintained. The rubber is usually perfectly even with the mound dirt. However as a game progresses it's possible some of the rubber's edge can be exposed as pitchers manicure the mound to their liking.

 

I did find several examples of where this has happened in little leagues and in men's leagues and were being described on Umpires forums for the proper ruling when this happens. In those cases it was in regard to question 1. In one game a ball grazed the pitcher, hit the rubber and roled back to the catcher who then threw out the runner going to first. A rare 1-2-3 putout.