Cole

[Hubs]

I do not think it's Cole or Bust.

Bumgarner and Ryu are legit frontline starter options too. Bumgarner had a rough start to the year, but his numbers are legit and he is only 1 year older than Cole. He has already turned 30, whereas Cole won't turn 29 until next month.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bumgama01.shtml

Ryu is 32. Next year is his age 33 season.

Odorrozzi, Keuchel, Etc. are other options, and there are a lot of other midrange options. 

I can't see the Angels committing 3+ years to anyone except Cole, Bumgarner, Ryu, and Odorrozzi, and maybe Miley and If the Braves don't pick up his option, Julio Tehran.

I could also see a trade in the off season for pitching.

 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Cancel 2020 -- Bleacher Report has spoken...

Now, now, I rely on them.....

 

Wait for it.…..

 

For my pro wrestling news

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Dick Enberg said:

I could see him getting 7 years at 220m. so risky, but never know, he could be the next Verlander and pitch well into his late 30's

Cole has had just one season where he missed a lot of starts.   He's shown his durability in health and innings pitched.   Still has never exceeded 208 innings for the regular season, and will only have some 1,250 career innings after this season (including post-season).   And with the Pirates, he was always at least decent to solid, before dominating these past two seasons. 

[Angel Oracle]

If Cole does hold out signing well into the winter, would Arte/Billy turn instead to signing two solid enough guys in Odorizzi and Miley, and use the remaining money for Will Smith?

Ryu has had lots of health issues, anything over a two year deal is a risk.

Bumgarner has been this millennium's ultimate post-season pitcher, but is showing signs of decline (highest hard hit % in career in 2019, lots of road park HRs allowed).

[Jay]

41 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

I think it's not Cole or bust, it's more like Cole and two other starter and 2 middle relievers or bust.

So bust then.

 

[totdprods]

I've long thought Scherzer's contract was the best comp for Cole.

I think he'll get around $30m annually. I bet he asks for seven years, but six is likeliest, but it also wouldn't surprise me if, like Corbin, the first team to add that extra year on (a seventh) gets him. 

That's crazy money and a crazy commitment that almost surely will not work out, but I honestly don't think the Angels could afford to not be in the mix. It's a gamble they have to take, and they'll just need to hope that they can continue to produce a number of Sandoval, Barria, Suarez, Canning-types every couple years over the life of the deal to offset any negative value. Which might be why Eppler's drafted nothing but pitchers the last two years. He knows this is an overpay he's going to have to do. And a reason why they've stayed away from high-risk/high-reward pitching draft picks, instead focusing on cheap, generic, solid pitching and high-upside amateur hitters. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by totdprods

[Stradling]

48 minutes ago, Mark PT said:

I think it's not Cole or bust, it's more like Cole and two other starter and 2 middle relievers or bust. Welcome!

No not really. 

[Claude]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

No not really. 

Have you been paying attention? We need a lot more than just Cole. We need 2-3 starters and at least another mid-relief arm and another masher bat in the lineup. Our team OPS is like .50 points lower than Houston & NYY. That’s significant and we have the best hitter in baseball. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Calzone 2

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Have you been paying attention? We need a lot more than just Cole. We need 2-3 starters and at least another mid-relief arm and another masher bat in the lineup. Our team OPS is like .50 points lower than Houston & NYY. That’s significant and we have the best hitter in baseball. 

The offense is fine and will be very good next year.  Otherwise, yeah, we need 2-3 starters and a middle reliever.  Personally, I'd have loved to have seen an offensive upgrade at C yet instead we look committed to Stassi.  Grandal would have made our offense top 3 or at least top 5. 

Is it your expectation that we become a 100 win team by next year?  

Yet another narrative.  Is this so you can tell people you knew they were good enough to win in the playoffs?   

How about we make some decent progress next year and have a strong season?    

[Tank]

3 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

Hi,

I have been reading this board multiple times daily for years.  I really want to express thanks to the many long-time contributors; particlary Doc, Second, TPod, and of course, Ten Ocho Recon Scout. Love that guys movie references, and how hes the only one brave enough to stand up to Tank on whats a great movie and what isnt.

Mike

 

 

Cheers! Welcome aboard

 

Worst post in aw.com history.

welcome aboard, @Wisconsin27. you can go ahead and put ten ocho on ignore in any and all movie discussion threads - trust me on this one.

[Tank]

Cole is Plan A.

[Mark PT]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

No not really. 

OK, I am looking for good news so expand your idea. We need good news badly.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

The offense is fine and will be very good next year.  Otherwise, yeah, we need 2-3 starters and a middle reliever.  Personally, I'd have loved to have seen an offensive upgrade at C yet instead we look committed to Stassi.  Grandal would have made our offense top 3 or at least top 5. 

Is it your expectation that we become a 100 win team by next year?  

Yet another narrative.  Is this so you can tell people you knew they were good enough to win in the playoffs?   

How about we make some decent progress next year and have a strong season?    

I'd gladly settle for an over .500 season in 2020, followed by a WC berth in 2021.

[Mark68]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

Cole is Plan A.

Absolutely.

But is there a Plan B? Or an A1?

[Tank]

4 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

Absolutely.

But is there a Plan B? Or an A1?

i'm sure people in the front office have a variety of contingency plans.

 

at least i'd like to believe they have a variety of contingency plans.

[Angel Oracle]

A1?  Now I'm hungry for steak. 

[Claude]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'd gladly settle for an over .500 season in 2020, followed by a WC berth in 2021.

That’s a slow crawl. 

[Wisconsin27]

Boy, a rough couple of days at work haven't allowed me to get back in on the conversation (though I admit I did go fishing right after work last night!).

First, I certainly meant no slight to the many regulars here that I didn't name in my original post.  My goodness, read this site daily for a few years and you get to feel like you actually know most of the guys on here!  And I will add, when you don't post and just take it in as fans of the same team debating with each other, it's not personal at all.  So cheers to all of you guys.  And seriously, it's my favorite source and there is a ton of knowledgeable folks here, so much appreciated.

Second, I didn't articulate the "Cole or bust" comment as I intended.  I was really thinking more along the lines of how Eppler is going to address the offseason (and less so on the idea of whether the Angels get him does or doesn't mean a successful '20).  In other words, if you were in Eppler's shoes (i.e. clock ticking despite doing many things wonderfully well), what approach would you take?  Wait as long as Boras decides the game will be played or put your best offer out there and walk if it's not accepted?  

There are so many awesome points made in this post already that I wish I could bundle them into something that makes sense.  We know Arte's history of making an offer and moving on if it's not accepted or swooping in at the last minute unexpectedly.  I can't recall many significant signings in-between where we waited a long time along with 2 or 3 other finalists and won the race.  Unfortunately, that runs counter to Boras' approach.  Rarely does he ever take the "first, best offer" and he often overplays the market.  Of course, this always comes with the now-traditional hoopla.....his media cronies post demands, fake teams being interested, "mystery teams" involved to drum up anxiety and interest, etc..  If you are Eppler, how long do you give him knowing the pressures you face (contract, Mike approaching his 30's, the need to be competitive in '20, the little availability after Cole, the need for more time for young talent to develop and the expiration of AP's contract, etc., etc.)?

I have a ton of respect for Eppler, but outside of Cole agreeing early to a "first, best offer," I don't envy the position he is in at all (not that I wouldn't LOVE to take a crack at it!).

Thanks to those who have replied.  Glad we are able to have some good discussion at an otherwise tough time.

Mike

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

Cole is Plan A.

Cole-on was a plan-et

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

Boy, a rough couple of days at work haven't allowed me to get back in on the conversation (though I admit I did go fishing right after work last night!).

First, I certainly meant no slight to the many regulars here that I didn't name in my original post.  

 

Literally anything you post on here is going to piss some regular off.

Theres recipe threads in the off topic section weve fought about.

[Docwaukee]

16 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I'd gladly settle for an over .500 season in 2020, followed by a WC berth in 2021.

obviously, it depends on what they do, but I'll be kinda bummed if .500 is the where they finish next year.  My expectations are higher than that for 2020.  Maybe I'm being unrealistic, but I think we can make a run at the division with the right moves and a little luck.  

[Blarg]

7 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Literally anything you post on here is going to piss some regular off.

Theres recipe threads in the off topic section weve fought about.

Anybody that thinks eggplant is delicious is a dumbass. 

[PattyD22]

44 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

obviously, it depends on what they do, but I'll be kinda bummed if .500 is the where they finish next year.  My expectations are higher than that for 2020.  Maybe I'm being unrealistic, but I think we can make a run at the division with the right moves and a little luck.  

I couldn’t agree more Doc.  As you stated, it’s going to take a few good moves, maybe a gamble or two, and some breaks to finally go this team way for once, but I expect to (hopefully) be at least 8-10 games over .500 and make a legitimate run at a playoff spot.

i can honestly say that not having Simmons in the line up is really hurting this team.  Tovar, while being an OK defensive player, is simply lost at the plate.  The exact same thing can be said for Stassi.  Good defensively, horse shit offensively.

Getting Simmons back, and hopefully LaStella near the end of August or early September can hopefully start building some positive momentum into the off season and the start of 2020.  

Hopefully.

[Dtwncbad]

If Cole signs quickly with another team, the Angels may be forced into. . . 

Signing a premium offensive player and then trading Adell in a package for an ace.

That’s not the direction I would want to go, but at some point you have to address your needs.

Rendon was mentioned earlier and would be a good example.  I love Adell and there are few things more fun in baseball than watching a really good elite prospect graduate and then tear it up with the big club.

But it is about winning at the major league level.

I could live with Rendon and an acquired ace at the expense of Adell.  Rendon will likely cost less than Cole as well.

Maybe it would suck to see Adell in another uniform, but it would probably be the right thing to do (again, if you can’t just sign Cole).

 

[Angel Oracle]

Could they sign Rendon, either Odorizzi or Miley, and a late innings guy not named Smith, and then use some excess to trade for a solid enough innings eater?