Cole

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

Hi,

I have been reading this board multiple times daily for years.  I really want to express thanks to the many long-time contributors; particlary Doc, Second, TPod, and of course, Ten Ocho Recon Scout. Love that guys movie references, and how hes the only one brave enough to stand up to Tank on whats a great movie and what isnt.

Mike

 

 

Cheers! Welcome aboard

[ten ocho recon scout]

Regarding Ryu, I just dont see the Dodgers letting him go. 

[John Taylor]

8 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

Hi,

I have been reading this board multiple times daily for years.  I really want to express thanks to the many long-time contributors; particlary Doc, Second, TPod, and the many more who offer the routine contributions on the state of the farm; I have no other trusted source.

I have chose to write for the first time in many years because I quite simply don't understand the "Cole or nothing" mantra that appears to have  become etched in stone.  Let me start by saying that I agree that if we were to draw it up, Cole is at the top of the list.  The reasons have been discussed ad nauseum.  And I agree with most we need a 3/4 innings eater "in addition to Cole."

All of that said, I suggest we pump the brakes.  I get the whole "local connection," White, Sassi, etc.  But lest we need to be reminded he is a Boras Client.  If we know anything about Boras, we know he's going to holdout until very late in the process and likely take the largest offer regardless of location.  This leave Eppler, who I admire but also understand currently has one year to prove himself, in a very difficult spot.

Does he "plan" on acquiring Cole and proceed by adding that 3/4 starter, only to potentially be left out of the other top players available via FA or trade?  Or does he make a "best offer" and proceed with a secondary plan unwilling to wait around?

As a Laker fan and recently impacted by the KL debacle, I can fully understand why he would move on despite my desire to roll-the-dice and put us in contention in the most obvious way possible.

Am I wrong for feeling it's not a "Cole or bust" offseason?  Are people truly of the mindset our '20 season rests largely on attaining Cole?

Mike

 

 

I personally don't feel its Cole or bust, but I do feel its "Better Starting Pitching" or bust. Our arms are really young right now and a good chunk of them should be pitching in the minors but can't due to injuries and Skaggs death. With Ohtani coming back next year we instantly get back a front of the line starter again (assuming he returns to form), and I think even if we add a couple 3's in the rotation, and not sign the Island of Misfit pitchers that the Angels org is famous for trying out we will be in solid contention next year.

This year has been a struggle for many reasons, but for the first time in a long time we have a young core of really good players on the field and some good young arms needing experience and confidence, the question is can Eppler get the right pieces and can Ausmus manage the team effectively?

[John Taylor]

Also welcome to the board @Wisconsin27 , it's not easy being a newbie starting a thread among us entrenched stubborn assholes who have been on this site so long that we've become a feedback loop of tdawg jokes, Scioscia lasagna memes, and @Chuckster70 getting drunk and deciding he needed to be called Charlie for a month.....good times.....

 

Anyway please continue to contribute to the discussion and don't take us too seriously.

Edited August 15, 2019 by John Taylor

[Claude]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2849486-predicting-2020-landing-spots-for-each-top-mlb-free-agent-post-trade-deadline

[Stradling]

Odds Clod links that if it predicted the Angels: 0%

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Odds Clod links that if it predicted the Angels: 0%

The only reason I posted this has nothing to do with Cole’s landing spot. It has to do with the projected cost. There were posts here suggesting 6/180. That’s not going to happen. 

[Claude]

The Astros could also try to re-sign Cole. 

Astros right-hander Gerrit Cole is on a collision course with an enormous payday in the next few months. Arguably the most valuable impending free agent in baseball, the three-time All-Star expressed excitement Tuesday.

“I’m looking forward to it,” said Cole. “I know what my right is as a player. Once I get six years of service time, my right is to be able to say yes or no to a place I want to play. So I’m excited to be able to exercise that right.”

That may make it sound as if Cole is ready to exit the Astros, but that isn’t necessarily the case. Houston, according to Cole, “checks a lot of the boxes. I expect them to be there when push comes to shove. I wouldn’t mind playing there for a lot longer.”

[Jeff Fletcher]

36 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

The Astros could also try to re-sign Cole. 

Astros right-hander Gerrit Cole is on a collision course with an enormous payday in the next few months. Arguably the most valuable impending free agent in baseball, the three-time All-Star expressed excitement Tuesday.

“I’m looking forward to it,” said Cole. “I know what my right is as a player. Once I get six years of service time, my right is to be able to say yes or no to a place I want to play. So I’m excited to be able to exercise that right.”

That may make it sound as if Cole is ready to exit the Astros, but that isn’t necessarily the case. Houston, according to Cole, “checks a lot of the boxes. I expect them to be there when push comes to shove. I wouldn’t mind playing there for a lot longer.”

What do you expect him to say?

”I probably won’t be back here.”

The issue honestly is not Cole, but the Astros. I think they got Greinke to replace Cole, because they only have to pay Greinke for 2 years instead of paying Cole for 6.

[angelsnationtalk]

This is a great post. The whole "Cole or bust" saying we all have does have serious pros and cons to it. We can all agree that we need an ace. Period. Cole would be that ace and would help our rotation line up better in terms of depth. The problem is that just adding Cole doesn't get us the division. We'd need a solid #1 and #2 to possibly get us within some distant talks of a division title. And even that is a stretch. As much as i'd love for Ohtani to be that solid #2, he needs to have a full healthy season first. Coming off of TJ will be a nail-biting situation for the Angels. I'm sure he'll be fine, but given how the Angels have had such bad luck with health in recent years, they could use all the arms they can find. 

I'm hoping something along the lines of what @totdprods said will happen. Making an offer for Cole is a great plan and I hope they both mutually agree, but I think making a trade in the offseason when the prices drop can really solidify the rotation a little more. I view it as Signing a big FA as a luxury, but making a solid trade for a solid #2 or #3 as a necessity. Then, adding the lower cost vet is a big safety net for us. When we make a trade we're going to have to include one of our young MLB ready arms. Someone like Barria or Suarez. That would add the value the other team would need and might help us avoid trading away Marsh.

We could become significantly better with pitching in 2020 looking like (best case):

Cole, Ohtani, *Traded Player*, Heaney, Canning, *whoever wins 6th spot*

All these players will be under contract by 2021. The Angels will have even more cash to spend after 2021 when Albert comes off the books. Enough for raises to Ohtani and to be used where it's needed.

[Jay]

I think Houston got Greinke because they want to win the World Series.

They would be foolish to let Cole walk but maybe they can no longer afford to keep him.

 

[angelsnationtalk]

7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

What do you expect him to say?

”I probably won’t be back here.”

The issue honestly is not Cole, but the Astros. I think they got Greinke to replace Cole, because they only have to pay Greinke for 2 years instead of paying Cole for 6.

Would you guess for Cole to want a contract between 20-25M/yr or 25-30M/yr ??

[Jay]

49 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Houston, according to Cole, “checks a lot of the boxes..."

Translation: they're a winning organization.

 

[Claude]

6 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Would you guess for Cole to want a contract between 20-25M/yr or 25-30M/yr ??

more.

[Jeff Fletcher]

7 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Would you guess for Cole to want a contract between 20-25M/yr or 25-30M/yr ??

Right now I’d guess something like 6/170 is what he’ll end up with. 

Corbin got 6/140. 

[Inside Pitch]

Cancel 2020 -- Bleacher Report has spoken...

[Claude]

6 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Right now I’d guess something like 6/170 is what he’ll end up with. 

Corbin got 6/140. 

That’s a contract Houston can afford to give him. And a lot of other teams. 

[Stradling]

A lot of teams will be willing to give him a million a start. 

[angelsnationtalk]

18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Right now I’d guess something like 6/170 is what he’ll end up with. 

Corbin got 6/140. 

Yikes $28.3M/yr....

[Claude]

40 minutes ago, Jay said:

I think Houston got Greinke because they want to win the World Series.

They would be foolish to let Cole walk but maybe they can no longer afford to keep him.

 

The Astros have money. Greinke is only going to be there for two more seasons. Verlander is getting older. They’ll try to keep Cole in Houston. 

[Stradling]

And lose Correa and or Springer in the process.  

[Dick Enberg]

57 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

The issue honestly is not Cole, but the Astros. I think they got Greinke to replace Cole, because they only have to pay Greinke for 2 years instead of paying Cole for 6.

and will eventually have to start paying for Springer, Bergman, Correa, etc. personally, I'd rather pay a position player big bucks over a pitcher. 

[Jay]

17 minutes ago, Dick Enberg said:

personally, I'd rather pay a position player big bucks over a pitcher. 

This should be a sign in Eppler's office.

 

[Inside Pitch]

On the books for 2020 as of today info from https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

AL 
Yankees - 164 Mil, 6 FA, 2 Arb3+, Encarnacion option
Red Sox - 159 Mil, 5 FA, 6 Arb3+, JD Martinez can opt out.
Twins -  20 Mil, 6 FA, 4 Arb3+, Martin Perez option.  (Running 120 mil Payroll this year so, they have money)
Astros - 156 Mil, 7 FA, 5 Arb3+
Angels - 116 Mil, 1 FA, 6 Arb3+  (Includes Bour)
Rangers - 86 Mil, 3 FA, (New Ballpark) -- they have money
Mariners - 75 Mil, 4 FA, 2 Arb3+ (Includes Beckham who they likely cut). 

NL 
Braves - 51 Mil, 8 FA, 3 Arb3+
Phillies - 110 Mil, 7 FA, 4 Arb3+
Mets - 128 Mil, 2 FA, 3 Arb3+
Nationals - 101 Mil, 8 FA, 3 Arb3+ (Always spend on pitching) Strasburg has an Opt out
Cubs - 114 Mil, 6 FA, 2 Arb3+ (They have money, Bryant Arb3)
Brewers - 51 Mil, 4 FA, 3 Arb3+ Moustakas can opt out
Cardinals - 147 Mil, 5 FA, 2 Arb3   Surpised their payroll situation is what it is.
Reds - 58 Mil, 4 FA, 4 Arb3+ (they were sitting at 127 Mil this year)
Dodgers - 112 Mil, 2 FA, 4 Arb3+  Ton of room to spend
Giants - 125 Mil, 2 FA, 3 Arb3+ 
Padres - 96 mil, 2 FA, 2 Arb3+  They likely are topped out, but they have been upping payroll

So, not to be a wet blanket but, the Dodgers again deserve a lot of credit for having spent the stupid money they did when current ownership took over.  They set themselves up long term better than any new ownership has since Arte in 2003.  They have a ton of talent coming a ton of $$ available should they go that route.

[Make Angels Great Again]

I see Cole getting over 30M AAV. I think you guys are severely underestimating his value. He's a LOT better than Corbin.