The age of our rotation

[tdawg87]

Bro

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, NrM said:

bro you are like the most liked person on this board. You get around 10 likes per post. Why would one random troll face bother you. I gave you that troll reaction because you gave it to me the other day and I'm vengeful. 

I'll remove it though

People like him because he is smart and says smart logical things.  He makes a nice long post putting things in perspective and some dude marks him as a troll because reasons.  

[Stradling]

Also Bro.  

[NrM]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

People like him because he is smart and says smart logical things.  He makes a nice long post putting things in perspective and some dude marks him as a troll because reasons.  

I know why people like his posts. No need to explain it to me. Thanks bro 

[m0nkey]

8 minutes ago, NrM said:

 I gave you that troll reaction because you gave it to me the other day and I'm vengeful. 

Respect 

[Dick B Back]

We need some levity bros.

 

[Docwaukee]

aaaaaand bro

[Lou]

I don't care for Doc

bro 

[Slegnaac]

3 hours ago, Lou said:

I don't care for Doc

bro 

Doctor cut you open when-a you sick.

[eligrba]

10 hours ago, NrM said:

bro you are like the most liked person on this board. You get around 10 likes per post. Why would one random troll face bother you. I gave you that troll reaction because you gave it to me the other day and I'm vengeful. 

I'll remove it though

[Hubs]

16 hours ago, VariousCrap said:

 

Cole must be target number one.  I'd stay away from Bumgarner.  I'd prefer target number two being Jake Ordorizzi or Zack Wheeler.

Bumgarner has been as good as Cole for years and is only two years older. He won't command as much money. Honestly, if you can get them for $50 M combined per year on the AAV... I'd say do it.

Corbin got $140 for 6 last offseason. Cole is better, so say $5 M more average at $28M per for 6/168. Bumgarner gets 4/88. Gonna have to overpay a bit to get him to come to AL, but maybe he wants to DH when Ohtani starts, lol. Maybe you pay them a little less in real dollars in 20 and 21, say $20 and $22 for Cole for 20 and 21, then 27 in 22, then 30 in 23, $33 in 24, and $36 in 2025..... 6/ 168.

$19M for 20, $21M for 21, $23 for 22, and $25 for Bumgarner. 4 /88.

Anyway-- here's a quick roster breakdown for 2020 and beyond.

For 2020, you have 29, 21, 37.667, 15, and 12.667, and 1 M committed to Pujols, Upton, Trout, Simmons, Cozart, and Calhoun respectively for a total of $116.334 for 5 roster spots.

They have a lot of players under arbitration, more than usual. Heaney, Bour, JC Ramirez, Bedrosian, La Stella and Garcia are eligible for arbitration 3rd year. Heaney and Cam are definites to bring back and La Stella and Ramirez are likely. I'd estimate say $15M for four guys. Robles and Tropeano will be eligible for the second time. I doubt Tropeano is brought back. Robles will cost 4M maybe as high as $5 but I doubt it. Stassi, Smith, Middleton, Noe Ramirez, and Goodwin will be eligible for the first time. Maybe these 5 guys get $12M combined.

At worst then, you have $31M for an additional 10 spots.

All of the 2018 rookies, 2019 rookies, and 2020 rookies will be under club control. None should be Super 2 players, as Ohtani missing time to injury probably keeps him from the total number of days needed, but even if he's super 2, shouldn't be that expensive. It's not likely he's a super 2.

That includes Ohtani (18), Bard (18), Pena (18), Anderson(18), Fletcher (18), Meija (18), Cole (18), Buttrey (18), Hermosillio (18), Barria (18), Bemboon (19), Canning (19), Jewell (19), Peters?, Rengifo (19), Sandoval (19), Suarez (19), Thaiss (19), Walsh (19), and Ward(18). Plus any 2020 rookies like Jo Adell, etc.

This is the bulk of the roster, and I can see the remaining 8 spots go to this group. They'll get paid like $5M total.

They sign the two free agent pitchers to the $40M in real salary, and $50 in AAV.

2020 max payroll for the 25 man roster in real dollars should be around $192, AAV will be around $10M more, still well under the Luxury tax line.

They may add a catcher, or something else, but I doubt it.

In 2021, They'd be at a slightly higher payroll for the same team, if they bring back Simmons, which may push them over the luxury tax line, and they'll likely have to pay Ohtani. Yet, this would only be a one year penalty if at all, and they'd be out from under the Cozart contract so it may be just under the luxury tax line.

And in 2022, they get out from under Pujols' money, so they'd be back under the luxury tax line again for sure.

They'd be essentially rolling with the same team in 2020 and 2021, with few off-season changes.

 

 

[Inside Pitch]

As always @Dochalo did an amazing job of bringing info to light in hopes of adding a bit of perspective...   As usual, many have missed the point, focused on the numbers and responded with what is essentially... "what difference does it matter how young they are if they all suck."   As he's said repeatedly, we aren't seeing the finished product yet, if anything they have been rushed and set up to fail but while the numbers might be ugly in some cases, they aren't exactly uncommon for young pitchers who are still struggling to develop their veteran skills -- stamina, command, control...   

So in an effort to again try add a little more perspective, allow me to point to a much more ballyhooed batch of young pitchers all of them highly thought of and rated -- most with top 100 histories...

The 2019 Atlanta Braves rookie pitchers.

Mike Soroka age 21 -- 48 (17), 27 (18), 25 (19).   2.32, 197 ERA+   Soroka pretty much was the crown jewel of the Braves bevy of SP prospects and he's delivered.

Bryse Wilson age 21 --  80 (19) -- 6.75, 69 ERA+
Kyle Wright age 23 -- 34 (18), 39 (19) -- 9.72. 48 ERA+
Toukie Toussaint, age 23 -- 71 (15), 90 (16), 53 (19) -- 5.62, 82 ERA+

These guys not breaking out ala Soroka doesn't validate what's going on with the Angels younger SPs -- but like another young group of pitchers, the Astros' Josh James, Framber Valdez,  and Corbin Martin, it's a reminder that young arms don't always hit the ground running..   

Struggles are the norm but having them is key for the long term success of the franchise.

[Tank]

On 8/11/2019 at 11:21 PM, Vladdylonglegs said:

I’m right every year about the Angels missing the playoffs. And pretty much everything else. Look up Melvin’s current stats if you need another example. 

[Claude]

20 hours ago, Hubs said:

Bumgarner has been as good as Cole for years and is only two years older. He won't command as much money. Honestly, if you can get them for $50 M combined per year on the AAV... I'd say do it.

Corbin got $140 for 6 last offseason. Cole is better, so say $5 M more average at $28M per for 6/168. Bumgarner gets 4/88. Gonna have to overpay a bit to get him to come to AL, but maybe he wants to DH when Ohtani starts, lol. Maybe you pay them a little less in real dollars in 20 and 21, say $20 and $22 for Cole for 20 and 21, then 27 in 22, then 30 in 23, $33 in 24, and $36 in 2025..... 6/ 168.

$19M for 20, $21M for 21, $23 for 22, and $25 for Bumgarner. 4 /88.

Anyway-- here's a quick roster breakdown for 2020 and beyond.

For 2020, you have 29, 21, 37.667, 15, and 12.667, and 1 M committed to Pujols, Upton, Trout, Simmons, Cozart, and Calhoun respectively for a total of $116.334 for 5 roster spots.

They have a lot of players under arbitration, more than usual. Heaney, Bour, JC Ramirez, Bedrosian, La Stella and Garcia are eligible for arbitration 3rd year. Heaney and Cam are definites to bring back and La Stella and Ramirez are likely. I'd estimate say $15M for four guys. Robles and Tropeano will be eligible for the second time. I doubt Tropeano is brought back. Robles will cost 4M maybe as high as $5 but I doubt it. Stassi, Smith, Middleton, Noe Ramirez, and Goodwin will be eligible for the first time. Maybe these 5 guys get $12M combined.

At worst then, you have $31M for an additional 10 spots.

All of the 2018 rookies, 2019 rookies, and 2020 rookies will be under club control. None should be Super 2 players, as Ohtani missing time to injury probably keeps him from the total number of days needed, but even if he's super 2, shouldn't be that expensive. It's not likely he's a super 2.

That includes Ohtani (18), Bard (18), Pena (18), Anderson(18), Fletcher (18), Meija (18), Cole (18), Buttrey (18), Hermosillio (18), Barria (18), Bemboon (19), Canning (19), Jewell (19), Peters?, Rengifo (19), Sandoval (19), Suarez (19), Thaiss (19), Walsh (19), and Ward(18). Plus any 2020 rookies like Jo Adell, etc.

This is the bulk of the roster, and I can see the remaining 8 spots go to this group. They'll get paid like $5M total.

They sign the two free agent pitchers to the $40M in real salary, and $50 in AAV.

2020 max payroll for the 25 man roster in real dollars should be around $192, AAV will be around $10M more, still well under the Luxury tax line.

They may add a catcher, or something else, but I doubt it.

In 2021, They'd be at a slightly higher payroll for the same team, if they bring back Simmons, which may push them over the luxury tax line, and they'll likely have to pay Ohtani. Yet, this would only be a one year penalty if at all, and they'd be out from under the Cozart contract so it may be just under the luxury tax line.

And in 2022, they get out from under Pujols' money, so they'd be back under the luxury tax line again for sure.

They'd be essentially rolling with the same team in 2020 and 2021, with few off-season changes.

 

 

This is a nice write up although I thought that I read somewhere that they will be expanding the rosters to 26 next season. Maybe I’m wrong. The other thing is that it’s a huge assumption that Arte is going to open up his wallet and is now ready to spend $190M+ ???? Where and when did Arte ever say that. 

I don’t think he gets anywhere near that number. If he does then he’s clearly admitting that he’s been keeping a lot of money off the table for years. 

[Jay]

Angels fans need to reset their expectations for this franchise.

Angels will be a middle-of-the-pack team for the foreseeable future.

That's if they add some pitching for 2020.

I don't see them as being division winners any time soon.

 

[Claude]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Angels fans need to reset their expectations for this franchise.

Angels will be a middle-of-the-pack team for the foreseeable future.

That's if they add some pitching for 2020.

I don't see them as being division winners any time soon.

 

If we can just figure out how to catch the $60M Rays for the second wild card that would be nice. 

[Angel Oracle]

IP's post hit the nail on the head regarding young pitching.   That makes it more imperative to bring in two solid experienced starters to better ease the young pitchers into regular roles and finally seriously contend for the first time since 2015 for at least a 2nd WC spot.   

[Jeff Fletcher]

21 hours ago, Hubs said:

All of the 2018 rookies, 2019 rookies, and 2020 rookies will be under club control. None should be Super 2 players, as Ohtani missing time to injury probably keeps him from the total number of days needed, but even if he's super 2, shouldn't be that expensive. It's not likely he's a super 2.

You still get service time when you’re injured. 

Ohtani has never been in the minors so he’ll be at 2.000 this winter. Super 2 is usually around 2.130.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Calzone 2 said:

If we can just figure out how to catch the $60M Rays for the second wild card that would be nice. 

Like i said in the other thread, we were f*cking stupid to lock trout up.

[Hubs]

43 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

You still get service time when you’re injured. 

Ohtani has never been in the minors so he’ll be at 2.000 this winter. Super 2 is usually around 2.130.

I forgot this, Good point. Though the conclusion is the same. No Super Two.

[Claude]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Like i said in the other thread, we were f*cking stupid to lock trout up.

No. Trout’s not the problem. It’s the 15-18 other guys that are the problem. 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Calzone 2

[TroutField]

9 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

No. Trout’s not the problem. It’s the 15-18 other guys that are the problem. 

Seriously, bizarre that anyone would say having the best player in baseball locked up for the rest of his career is a bad thing ... if we had any resemblance of a pitching rotation we would be a playoff team.

[totdprods]

Not only are these guys super young, but Canning, Suarez, and Sandoval all started 2018 in A+ ball. That's barely any time in AA and AAA, right into the frying pan. 

Barria moved just as quickly one year prior. 

[Hubs]

1 hour ago, Calzone 2 said:

This is a nice write up although I thought that I read somewhere that they will be expanding the rosters to 26 next season. Maybe I’m wrong. The other thing is that it’s a huge assumption that Arte is going to open up his wallet and is now ready to spend $190M+ ???? Where and when did Arte ever say that. 

I don’t think he gets anywhere near that number. If he does then he’s clearly admitting that he’s been keeping a lot of money off the table for years. 

The 26th guy will be one of the club control guys. They could keep an extra catcher for portions of the season, a fifth OF, a seventh INF, or a 14th pitcher.

OF: Trout, Upton, Goodwin, Walsh/Hermosillio -- Adell by June 15th.

INF: Pujols, Fletcher, La Stella, Simmons, Thaiss, Rengifo

Catchers: Stassi, Smith

DH/SP: Ohtani

SP: Cole (FA), Bumgarner (FA), Heaney, Canning, Suarez / Sandoval

RP: Robles, Buttrey, Bedrosian, Meijia, Anderson, Cole, N. Ramirez, Pena

[Claude]

1 minute ago, TroutField said:

Seriously, bizarre that anyone would say having the best player in baseball locked up for the rest of his career is a bad thing ... if we had any resemblance of a pitching rotation we would be a playoff team.

I’m pretty sure he was being sarcastic. A nice pitching staff is definitely the answer.