Jo Adell to AAA Salt lake

[IIIII]

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

And cats

I'm allergic. Dogs all the way!

[IIIII]

15 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

 

Adell is in the lineup tonight and leading off

Keep beating the dodgers! Perfect time to watch when the main team is off. 

 

[Angelsjunky]

Kole Calhoun, you've been served.

[Chris]

[Angelsjunky]

I don't think options are much of a concern for players like Adell, beause they don't tend to get shuffled back and forth too many times. They are usually called up to stay, or called up for a cup o coffee and then back to the minors and then back up to stay for good.

I think the issue is how long the Angels have Adell under club control. His service time clock starts, as far as I understand, as soon as he's on the major league roster - which is when he's called up. At that point he's under club control for six full years.

But because it is full years, September generally doesn't matter. If he's on the Opening Day roster, the Angels will have him under club control through 2025, whether or not he plays in September. In other words, if he's on the roster for 30 days in September, that's 0.17 of a year (a year being 172 active days of ~183). If he then is on the roster for 172+ days of the next five years (2020-24), he's at 5.17...so the Angels still have him for 2025. In other words, 2025 is the minimum.

But things get interesting if he plays in September and doesn't play all of 2020 on the  major league roster, and this is where I'm not 100% clear. If Adell is on the roster for 30 games in 2019 and then 142 days in 2020, that would be one fully year (30 + 142 = 172, which is a full year). So at the end of 2020, he'd be at one full year with five years left: club control through 2025. If he is 30 games in 2019 and, say, 152 games in 2020, it is over one fully year (182 games), but they still have him under control through 2025 as they don't lose club control within the middle of a season.

The Angels would only extend club control to 2026 if either his major league debut is delayed until late next year, or he spends a lot of time in the minors over the next couple years. That will only happen if he struggles, is injured, or they're creepily manipulative. But the point being, it is probably 2025, maybe 2026.

 

[IIIII]

6 minutes ago, cvdog said:

A month ago I wanted Kole gone, now its Upton. Unless Adell can pitch I'm not excited by this news.

The issue with both is inconsistency. Adell has a tremendous ceiling and it's worth seeing what that might be even if it means losing Calhoun or Upton, which was already inevitable. You should be excited about Adell, he's our best prospect since Trout. Look what the Astro's were able to do once they accumulated enough of these high level prospects. Also, pitching is largely going to come through FA or trades..

[Angelsjunky]

There really isn't much of an argument about who the Angels keep, Upton or Calhoun. And further, I feel more and more that it is time to move on from Calhoun.

First of all, there's the no-trade clause on Upton's contract. Upton likes being an Angel and presumably wants to continue being an Angel. I suppose if he could play for a better team in a nice location he might accept a trade, but how likely is that? Most teams don't want a possibly declining 32 year old for 3/$72M.

Second of all, Upton is under contract next year while Calhoun has a $2M opt out of a $14M option. Do you pay $24M for Upton/Adell or $36M for Upton/Calhoun, with Adell in AAA? In other words, the Angels would be paying an extra $12M to play Calhoun over Adell, and to keep Adell in the minors.

Third of all, we have to look at the big picture to remind ourselves that Upton is a surer bet to be a solid 3+ WAR performer than Calhoun. He missed half of this season and hasn't rounded into form, but this doesn't mean he won't play much better next year. If you look at his career, he's prone to a sub-par season every three years or so. His career includes a few All-Star caliber seasons, a bunch of good seasons, and a handful of mediocre ones. We're amidst one of the latter. It happens. There's no reason to think he can't at least have a good (3-4 WAR) season next year.

That said, Upton will be 32 next year. It may be that his recent struggles aren't just injury but actual decline. But still, even one of his mediocre years (~2 WAR) isn't that much worse than what we can expect from Calhoun.

I like Kole and he's having a solid season, but its not like he's a monster. He's got a 111 wRC+ and 1.9 WAR in about two thirds of a season. He's pretty much average for a starting corner outfielder. He's not irreplaceable, especially when you have one of the best prospects in baseball, and another very good prospect about a year or less behind.

p.s. And there's Brian Goodwin, who isn't far behind Calhoun. If you go into 2020 with Upton-Trout-Adell and Adell struggles, Goodwin is an adequate place-holder until he's ready. And if Adell thrives, the Angels have a nice trade chip in Goodwin, with Hermosillo being the 4th outfielder.

 

[ettin]

45 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I don't think options are much of a concern for players like Adell, beause they don't tend to get shuffled back and forth too many times. They are usually called up to stay, or called up for a cup o coffee and then back to the minors and then back up to stay for good.

I think the issue is how long the Angels have Adell under club control. His service time clock starts, as far as I understand, as soon as he's on the major league roster - which is when he's called up. At that point he's under club control for six full years.

But because it is full years, September generally doesn't matter. If he's on the Opening Day roster, the Angels will have him under club control through 2025, whether or not he plays in September. In other words, if he's on the roster for 30 days in September, that's 0.17 of a year (a year being 172 active days of ~183). If he then is on the roster for 172+ days of the next five years (2020-24), he's at 5.17...so the Angels still have him for 2025. In other words, 2025 is the minimum.

But things get interesting if he plays in September and doesn't play all of 2020 on the  major league roster, and this is where I'm not 100% clear. If Adell is on the roster for 30 games in 2019 and then 142 days in 2020, that would be one fully year (30 + 142 = 172, which is a full year). So at the end of 2020, he'd be at one full year with five years left: club control through 2025. If he is 30 games in 2019 and, say, 152 games in 2020, it is over one fully year (182 games), but they still have him under control through 2025 as they don't lose club control within the middle of a season.

The Angels would only extend club control to 2026 if either his major league debut is delayed until late next year, or he spends a lot of time in the minors over the next couple years. That will only happen if he struggles, is injured, or they're creepily manipulative. But the point being, it is probably 2025, maybe 2026.

 

They could option him down and the 2020 year wouldn't count against his total, if I am not mistaken. If they bring him up in September for a cup of coffee then he will likely see more action in 2020 but the Angels will manipulate the service time to their advantage so he doesn't exceed more than one year.

[Angelsjunky]

3 minutes ago, ettin said:

They could option him down and the 2020 year wouldn't count against his total, if I am not mistaken. If they bring him up in September for a cup of coffee then he will likely see more action in 2020 but the Angels will manipulate the service time to their advantage so he doesn't exceed more than one year.

So the important number seems to be 172 for 2019 + 2020. If he's on the major league roster for less than 172 days (not games) between 2019 and 2020, then the Angels have him under club control through 2026. But I think they only do that if he struggles. I suppose this is valid reason not to call him up in September or until he's "proven himself" in AAA in April next year, but as Fletcher pointed out, the Angels don't traditionally play that game.

I think they'll call him up if they think he is ready, and this will depend on how he does in Salt Lake over the next month. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Doesn't Upton have a no trade clause?

Yeah. He can still be traded. He just has to approve. 

I am pretty sure the Angels won’t trade him, but I’m just saying if they really got to the point where they thought they were better with Marsh than him in the OF (a point which may never come), they’d have to explore it 

[ScottT]

4 hours ago, Dick B Back said:

I haven’t been this excited to see a youngster to move up to AAA since Brandon Wood!

Brandon Wood actually played in AAA before he played in AA.

He got a September call up after a full season in AAA.   Again, the Angels didn't worry about service time.   Turns out, they never had to worry about him being a free agent.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, cvdog said:

A month ago I wanted Kole gone, now its Upton. Unless Adell can pitch I'm not excited by this news.

Honestly, if you can’t get excited about Adell then stay the hell out of a thread about Adell.  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Honestly, if you can’t get excited about Adell then stay the hell out of a thread about Adell.  

But he wanted pitching!

[nando714]

Why didn’t we trade Calhoun, again?

[ScottT]

It is more likely that Goodwin starts on opening day next year for the Angels than Calhoun.   Even if Adell struggles a bit... gets sick and sent to AAA for a couple weeks next year..  they aren't picking up Calhoun's option.  It doesn't make any sense.  

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Why didn’t we trade Calhoun, again?

You should probably ask the 30 GMs because they are the only ones that know the answer to that.  My guess is there was no real offer for him that made any sense.  If you aren’t offered anyone worth a damn, why trade him?

[ScottT]

7 minutes ago, nando714 said:

Why didn’t we trade Calhoun, again?

There weren't many trades.  The combination of valuing young, cheap players....  lots of teams not being that far out of it....   and the one deadline....   they couldn't have gotten much for them.   And... the Angels aren't totally out of it.   Calhoun could help that cause.

[UndertheHalo]

I think they didn’t trade Calhoun because there’s no point in just giving him away.  Might as well keep him around rather then get some low minors kid who probably won’t ever get to the majors.  That’s just the reality.  Kole doesn’t have a ton of value.  

Calhoun has been a good Angel.  He deserves some respect and part of that is letting him play out the season with his teammates.  Especially if the organization isn’t going to be helped really by moving him.   Plus, sure they still have a minor chance.  Baseball is weird.  

A trade would have been fine if there was something to he had for him.  Apparently there just wasn’t. 

[ScottT]

Also... I brought this up the day after it happened.  Arte Moreno was in the dugout shaking hands before the first game back after the all star break.  He hugged Kole Calhoun.  It doesn't always lead to great results for the team on the field, but it is clear Arte values things beyond WAR, wOBA, and wRC+.  I'd guess he's backed off after Pujols..... and especially Hamilton....   but he has input on every decision.  I don't think that's why they didn't trade Calhoun, but pretty much everything pointed to him not being traded.   

[Duren, Duren]

It would be so much easier if the service terms weren't so severe.

From a team and fan perspective, it would be great to see a month or so of Adell on the roster. A tiny sample, but getting acclimated to the big leagues, seeing major league pitching, understanding the challenges first hand are important progressive steps. 

It would also turn all the hype down a notch. Doubtful he will be great or terrible immediately, and even a negative debut will provide insight and show specific areas to work on. Countless great players were lousy in their first tour of duty, but advance on their learning curve quickly. 

A positive debut will reinforce confidence all around.

But the realities dictate a careful attention to the service restrictions. But instead of worrying about hypothetical contract scenarios years down the road maybe pushing the envelope now will have more immediate benefit. 

 

[Docwaukee]

canning and adell from the same draft.  pretty sick.  

[Stradling]

8 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

That point has already come. Whether or not Eppler will figure that out is another story. 

As usual you are delusional.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

canning and adell from the same draft.  pretty sick.  

Be interesting to bump that draft thread and see what everyones take was at the time...

 

 

 

 

@Lou

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, RBM said:

Yep. Adell will most likely be under club control through 2025 regardless of whether or not he gets called up in September. 

He could get called up this September, start the 2020 season in AAA and get called back up in mid May and not hit the 172 days giving the club control through 2026. 

OR

He could finish this year in AAA and start 2020 in AAA for three weeks and then get called up giving the club control through 2026. 

I don't think either of those scenarios are likely. The Angels didn’t manipulate service time with Trout so I doubt they would with Adell. So I think if he continues to play well he will be our RF’er on opening day next year. 

They had a legit reason to not call up Trout.  

Even if Adell gets some time this year and never goes back to the minors, he's controlled through 2025 at minimum.   

If they don't call him up this year and wait till April in 2020 then he's controlled through 2026.  

I'm not sure why people think they aren't going to manipulate Adell's service time to get the extra year.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I'm not sure why people think they aren't going to manipulate Adell's service time to get the extra year.  

Hes going to destroy AAA, and then it will be like how they tried to keep Jim Carey on the island in The Truman Show

"I want to be the best baseball player ever." - Adell

Then theyll show him a picture of Babe Ruth, and say "theres already been a best ever. You should focus on being the best Bee, ever"