Justin Upton

[Inside Pitch]

Just to hammer home the merely good line of thinking...

Going back those same 70 years -- this is the merely good team the Angels would field if every player had compiled Upton's career 37 fWAR

Position, players, all time ranks at position

C - Jim Sundberg/Jason Kendall 22/23
1B - Steve Garvey/Kent Hrbek 41/42
2B - Alfonso Soriano/Placido Polanco 22/23
SS - Troy Tulowitzki/Jay Bell 24/25
3B - Tim Wallach/Josh Donaldson 36/37
RF - Felipe Alou/Roger Maris 40/42  (Upton would rank 41st)
CF - Dusty Baker/Willie Wilson 38/39
DH - Harold Baines/Chili Davis 11/12
SP - Chris Carpenter/Jim Perry/Catfish Hunter/Jason Schmidt/Ken Holtzman/Kevin Tapani/Wilbur Wood/Bob Veale/Mike Flanagan  107-115
CL -- Mariano Rivera/Rich Gossage 1/2

Yes, War attempts to normalize performance across positions...  No, it doesn't accurately gauge performance across positions.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Just to hammer home the merely good narrative..

Going back those same 70 years -- this is the merely good team the Angels would field if every player had compiled Upton's career 37 fWAR

Position, players, all time ranks at position

C - Jim Sundberg/Jason Kendall 22/23
1B - Steve Garvey/Kent Hrbek 41/42
2B - Alfonso Soriano/Placido Polanco 22/23
SS - Troy Tulowitzki/Jay Bell 24/25
3B - Tim Wallach/Josh Donaldson 36/37
RF - Felipe Alou/Roger Maris 40/42  (Upton would rank 41st)
CF - Dusty Baker/Willie Wilson 38/39
DH - Harold Baines/Chili Davis 11/12
SP - Chris Carpenter/Jim Perry/Catfish Hunter/Jason Schmidt/Ken Holtzman/Kevin Tapani/Wilbur Wood/Bob Veale/Mike Flanagan  107-115
CL -- Mariano Rivera/Rich Gossage 1/2

Yes, War attempts to normalize performance across positions, No, it doesn't accurately gauge performance across positions.

 

I truly appreciate your efforts on this IP but it’s totally going to fall of deaf ears to the dudes who hate Upton.  Do you really think a guy who thinks calling him Melvin is funny is going to have a light bulb moment?  Or maybe the guy who doesn’t like him because he’s played for too many teams?  These guys hate because that’s what they do.  

[tdawg87]

I kinda want someone to hate him because he's black just to see how far AW is willing to take this.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

I kinda want someone to hate him because he's black just to see how far AW is willing to take this.

You think they don’t?

[jordan]

Just stating for the record, I am an Upton fan. His lows are ugly, but he always gets his numbers. He missed most of the season. He’s still in early May time frame as far as finding his groove. He will lock on soon, I’m sure of that. 

[JarsOfClay]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Just to hammer home the merely good narrative..

Going back those same 70 years -- this is the merely good team the Angels would field if every player had compiled Upton's career 37 fWAR

Position, players, all time ranks at position

C - Jim Sundberg/Jason Kendall 22/23
1B - Steve Garvey/Kent Hrbek 41/42
2B - Alfonso Soriano/Placido Polanco 22/23
SS - Troy Tulowitzki/Jay Bell 24/25
3B - Tim Wallach/Josh Donaldson 36/37
RF - Felipe Alou/Roger Maris 40/42  (Upton would rank 41st)
CF - Dusty Baker/Willie Wilson 38/39
DH - Harold Baines/Chili Davis 11/12
SP - Chris Carpenter/Jim Perry/Catfish Hunter/Jason Schmidt/Ken Holtzman/Kevin Tapani/Wilbur Wood/Bob Veale/Mike Flanagan  107-115
CL -- Mariano Rivera/Rich Gossage 1/2

Yes, War attempts to normalize performance across positions, No, it doesn't accurately gauge performance across positions.

 

This is like the Albert Pujols argument. "You shouldn't hate on him because he's one of the greatest of all time" even though he's completely flopped while be an Angel.

Ya how about no.

[Stradling]

Just now, JarsOfClay said:

This is like the Albert Pujols argument. "You shouldn't hate on him because he's one of the greatest of all time" even though he's completely flopped while be an Angel.

Ya how about no.

No, it’s not, but that’s how you perceive it because you didn’t like the trade to begin with.  He had a 3.5 WAR last year.  He’s struggled with RISP.   That’s pretty much it.  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

This is like the Albert Pujols argument. "You shouldn't hate on him because he's one of the greatest of all time" even though he's completely flopped while be an Angel.

Ya how about no.

His OPS+ with the Angels is 118. His career OPS+ is 120. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

This is like the Albert Pujols argument. "You shouldn't hate on him because he's one of the greatest of all time" even though he's completely flopped while be an Angel.

Ya how about no.

Except it's nothing like that..   

Career OPS+  120.   As an Angel 118

By all means continue to be stupid.

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

His OPS+ with the Angels is 118. His career OPS+ is 120. 

!

[tdawg87]

Ha, I Lou'd IP. 

[Angel Oracle]

The part where it’s criticized that he got an extra year to stay is out there.   How is one extra season of $21 million going to hurt a solid market team?

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

The part where it’s criticized that he got an extra year to stay is out there.   How is one extra season of $21 million going to hurt a solid market team?

It’s not but narratives and such. 

[Glen]

51 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Just to hammer home the merely good line of thinking...

Going back those same 70 years -- this is the merely good team the Angels would field if every player had compiled Upton's career 37 fWAR

Position, players, all time ranks at position

C - Jim Sundberg/Jason Kendall 22/23
1B - Steve Garvey/Kent Hrbek 41/42
2B - Alfonso Soriano/Placido Polanco 22/23
SS - Troy Tulowitzki/Jay Bell 24/25
3B - Tim Wallach/Josh Donaldson 36/37
RF - Felipe Alou/Roger Maris 40/42  (Upton would rank 41st)
CF - Dusty Baker/Willie Wilson 38/39
DH - Harold Baines/Chili Davis 11/12
SP - Chris Carpenter/Jim Perry/Catfish Hunter/Jason Schmidt/Ken Holtzman/Kevin Tapani/Wilbur Wood/Bob Veale/Mike Flanagan  107-115
CL -- Mariano Rivera/Rich Gossage 1/2

Yes, War attempts to normalize performance across positions, No, it doesn't accurately gauge performance across positions.

 

This is a bit like talking about Pujols' career stats. Just a bit.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Glen said:

This is a bit like talking about Pujols' career stats. Just a bit.

Except 3.5 WAR last year.  

[Stradling]

Another example of a blowhard being a blowhard. 

[fan_since79]

1 minute ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Another example of the Angels paying a player for his past success. 

Vernon Wells is too blessed to disagree.

[Claude]

4 minutes ago, Vladdylonglegs said:

Another example of the Angels paying a player for his past success. 

Come on Vladdy, you know he’s going to prove us all wrong this October. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Calzone 2 said:

Come on Vladdy, you know he’s going to prove us all wrong this October. 

Clod is back everyone!  

[Stradling]

Upton would have got a similar contract in free agency as he got from the Angels.  Something similar to what JD Martinez got.  

[tdawg87]

I want Fletch to come into this thread and just bitchslap everyone.

[Inside Pitch]

25 minutes ago, Glen said:

This is a bit like talking about Pujols' career stats. Just a bit.

Enlighten me - how does one reply to a post arguing what a player has actually been without actually referencing those career numbers?   

If you want to strictly look at what he's been as an Angel -- 4.5 bWAR in 200 games.  

 

 

[Claude]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Upton would have got a similar contract in free agency as he got from the Angels.  Something similar to what JD Martinez got.  

From who? I really want to know who was prepared to give Upton that type of contract. Upton said he wanted to win so which playoff caliber team needed a left fielder at the time that was in a financial position to match what the Angels gave him. 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Calzone 2

[fan_since79]

15 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Upton would have got a similar contract in free agency as he got from the Angels.  Something similar to what JD Martinez got.  

"I've watched Justin Upton play, and Mr. Stradling, he's no JD Martinez."

(You might be too young to get the reference.)

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, fan_since79 said:

"I've watched Justin Upton play, and Mr. Stradling, he's no JD Martinez."

(You're might be too young to get the reference.)

I get the reference.