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calscuf

Canceling Student Loan Debt

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How many engineers and doctors do you guys think there can be ?  

Truly, I get what you’re saying about personal accountability.   But there are complexities to the issue.  It’s not just as easy as saying these people are babies.  Fuc*k them.  

I think that the way people are prepared to enter the work force has to be completely changed in the country.  I don’t necessarily support just sending people off to go get literature degrees and the public should pay for it.  I think there should be significant expansion to apprenticeship etc.  the whole thing needs to be re evaluated.  Traditional university isn’t for everyone or even a majority of people.  

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2 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

How many engineers and doctors do you guys think there can be ?  

Truly, I get what you’re saying about personal accountability.   But there are complexities to the issue.  It’s not just as easy as saying these people are babies.  Fuc*k them.  

I think that the way people are prepared to enter the work force has to be completely changed in the country.  I don’t necessarily support just sending people off to go get literature degrees and the public should pay for it.  I think there should be significant expansion to apprenticeship etc.  the whole thing needs to be re evaluated.  Traditional university isn’t for everyone or even a majority of people.  

I don’t disagree with this, but I do disagree with having the rest of us paying for other people’s student loans.

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We are arguing 2 different things. And the country could probably use more doctors and engineers.

But going back to the hypothetical idiot whose school went belly up that you think is a victim?  He went to law school to get rich.  You should understand that.

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2 minutes ago, calscuf said:

We are arguing 2 different things. And the country could probably use more doctors and engineers.

But going back to the hypothetical idiot whose school went belly up that you think is a victim?  He went to law school to get rich.  You should understand that.

I understand it. 

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As far as I’m concerned this is the dem version of “we’re going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it “. It gets you a starting point that excites your knuckleheaded base and allows you to throttle back into more reasonable positions that appear to be compromise. Now you can talk about maybe restructuring some of the debt and making some tweaks to the system going forward 

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1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

I deeply, deeply dislike the idea that there’s some “problem” with millennials.  Millennials have been absolutely fuc*ked.  Whether you want to talk about employment or housing or whatever.  I understand reservations about student loan debt being wiped out.  But it’s also true that many of these loans are predatory in nature.  Loans being made to young people that don’t really understand what they’re getting into when they sign the dotted line.  You can get one of these loans when you’re 17.    

The principle issue is that young people are sold a bill of goods that is complete bullshit.  That they must go get one of these insanely expensive degrees.  How much did you pay for school Tank ? 

I started college in the fall of 78. We were on the quarter system, and it was roughly $1200 per quarter, so $3600 per year starting off. My final year was 83-84, and tuition was roughly $2000/quarter, $6000/year. My brother joined me at school in 81, so our costs were doubled.

I want to point out that this was very expensive for us, and that was because we came from a single parent home. My dad contributed next to nothing. My mom was a nurse who worked the graveyard shift, and she ALWAYS took on extra shifts for more money. My mom worked seven nights a week for over six years - no days off, no vacation time, not even a sick day here or there. My brother and I worked each year we were in school plus our summers. This was our commitment to paying our way through school. I took out one student loan to pay for an organic chemistry class I took one summer. We were able to pay it off within the next year because of how much we worked.

I know these numbers aren’t as staggering as the amounts you see today, but they were huge numbers for us, and there were times we were worried and in tears about whether or not we’d be able to continue. Because we are people of faith, we always exercised our faith and believed that was an essential part of our success.

the school I attended is now $30k/year. My daughter started to attend there but it’s in NorCal and she got homesick. She’s now taking classes online and paying for them herself. She got a job at a preschool and works full time. I’m very proud of how she’s handling this.

i think someone today has to shop wisely in picking a school to attend. If the cost is $50k a year and you can’t afford that, your options are to take out loans, find a less expensive school, work while attending school, or skip college and find a job. Amassing tens of thousands of dollars of debt isn’t a necessity for everyone to be successful.

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6 minutes ago, Tank said:

I started college in the fall of 78. We were on the quarter system, and it was roughly $1200 per quarter, so $3600 per year starting off. My final year was 83-84, and tuition was roughly $2000/quarter, $6000/year. My brother joined me at school in 81, so our costs were doubled.

I want to point out that this was very expensive for us, and that was because we came from a single parent home. My dad contributed next to nothing. My mom was a nurse who worked the graveyard shift, and she ALWAYS took on extra shifts for more money. My mom worked seven nights a week for over six years - no days off, no vacation time, not even a sick day here or there. My brother and I worked each year we were in school plus our summers. This was our commitment to paying our way through school. I took out one student loan to pay for an organic chemistry class I took one summer. We were able to pay it off within the next year because of how much we worked.

I know these numbers aren’t as staggering as the amounts you see today, but they were huge numbers for us, and there were times we were worried and in tears about whether or not we’d be able to continue. Because we are people of faith, we always exercised our faith and believed that was an essential part of our success.

the school I attended is now $30k/year. My daughter started to attend there but it’s in NorCal and she got homesick. She’s now taking classes online and paying for them herself. She got a job at a preschool and works full time. I’m very proud of how she’s handling this.

i think someone today has to shop wisely in picking a school to attend. If the cost is $50k a year and you can’t afford that, your options are to take out loans, find a less expensive school, work while attending school, or skip college and find a job. Amassing tens of thousands of dollars of debt isn’t a necessity for everyone to be successful.

Thanks for sharing tank.  My intention isn’t to be a jerk.  But like you said.  The numbers are staggering.  I think for a lot of people today getting a job and paying your way without taking on tremendous debt is not really a possibility.  Your mom sounds like a saint.  I think it’s unfair that someone should have to endure that so their kid can be educated.  People surely would and do, but again, im not sure if that’s enough for the numbers we’re talking about.  

Anyway, I hope we can at least agree that there are significant pressures on people to go ahead and pursue the college thing and that is maybe a bad thing.  It is very expensive.  For a lot of them it’s not the best choice.  So again, I’ll say that as a society we should be looking at different ways for people to enter the workforce and have success.  

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It should also be pointed out that while college debt might be hard to manage the first few years, for people whose income begins to increase, it gets far more manageable.

My student loan payment has remained about $750 per month since graduating law school in 2005. That was a hard payment to make at $60k per year. It is much easier now. Sometimes it just takes discipline and perservance.

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You borrow it, you pay it back.

Having said that, millennials ineptness with debt isn’t unique to them. Baby boomer politicians have really screwed this country and the average American has no concept of what a savings account is or how it should be used, no matter when they were born.

The best way to help with your debt is throw in a little additional principle with each payment. $50 extra a month means a lot down the road.

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2 hours ago, Lhalo said:

If you want to lower college tuition then you have to end government backed student loans. 

This.  Get the government out of guaranteeing loans and lets see what happens to the cost of college.  Everyone has the right to go to college but I ran into too many people who were only there because their family wanted them to go and because we all heard the "you have to get a degree" line.  It's true that college grads make more on average but too many people who went thought getting any degree meant a certain job and pay after college.  Some people definitely got screwed on the timing of when they graduated but they weren't the first and won't be the last to graduate during a recession. 

When it comes to outstanding student loans we're talking about ~13% of the population, an average loan outstanding of 37K and an average monthly payment under $400.  40% of the student loan debt outstanding is for graduate or professional degrees.  If they want to lower the interest rate by all means but taxpayers should not be on the hook for paying an individuals school loan off.

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My issue with this is twofold,
#1 it doesn't create more seats or classrooms so making education free doesnt get more people into colleges save for those that were low in attendance already.  It isnt like suddenly everyone will be going to USC/UCLA, they will still have admissions processes to control the number of students to what they can actually support.  And of course select only those that fit the agenda but thats another topic. 
#2 its isnt proportionally fair.  Who benefits the most from it, those who could actually afford to go to top schools, IE the wealthy, or those who were really really in mass debt.  The average person gets far less benefit.  

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For the sake of accuracy, Bernie Sanders plans to pay for this through taxing Wall Street speculation. His plans, and Democratic Socialism in general, tend to be about redistribution of wealth through taxing the wealthy to provide better services for the poor. So if this negatively effects you, it means that you are already wealthy. Meaning, it may reduce your Wall Street profits, while at the same time greatly improving the financial situation of 45 million Americans.

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Going forward, more millennials need to seriously consider attending a trade school instead of a 4 year school.

Shorter time to get that diploma, and much more hands on training than at a traditional 4 year school

My daughter went that route 3 years ago, only needed about half a year, and upon getting her certificate was employed in the esthetician field a month or two after graduation. 

After my 1982 LBSU graduation, I got my computer programming trade school diploma back in 1988, and got a job a month and a half later and have been in that field for over 31 years now.

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26 minutes ago, Taylor said:

If I didn't have to pay my student loan debts, I'd be paying a lot more into the good ol' USofA economy.

 

Nah, I'd probably waste it on video games or something.

Never stop gaming and posting dude. It’s vital. 

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2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

For the sake of accuracy, Bernie Sanders plans to pay for this through taxing Wall Street speculation. His plans, and Democratic Socialism in general, tend to be about redistribution of wealth through taxing the wealthy to provide better services for the poor. So if this negatively effects you, it means that you are already wealthy. Meaning, it may reduce your Wall Street profits, while at the same time greatly improving the financial situation of 45 million Americans.

I get a kick out of people who think “Wall Street” is some mythical group of about a dozen white old men hanging around a conference table laughing maniacally while lighting their cigars with c-notes. “Wall Street” is most of America. It’s anyone who has a pension or a 401k. It’s the greeter at Walmart, the cable guy or anyone else that works at a publicly traded company. If you want to try to solve this country’s student debt problem by taxing the ever loving shit out of Wall Street then prepare to reap the windfall of taxes being passed on down to workers and customers alike. In other words the average Joe will still take it in the ass. 

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13 hours ago, Lhalo said:

If you want to lower college tuition then you have to end government backed student loans.

 

Actually, I think it would work the other way.  If you end government backed student loans.  Then the student loans would be on par with unsecured debt.  Unsecured debt means no more 4.53% interest rates, and more like 20% rates similar to credit cards.  Probably 30% if you decide to major in French medieval literature.  

People don't understand that that's the compromise that was struck with student loans.  They are unsecured.  The government is the one that secures them, and that is also the reason why student loans aren't banruptciable.  In exchange for the low rates, you can't get out of the obligation.  

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9 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

 

Actually, I think it would work the other way.  If you end government backed student loans.  Then the student loans would be on par with unsecured debt.  Unsecured debt means no more 4.53% interest rates, and more like 20% rates similar to credit cards.  Probably 30% if you decide to major in French medieval literature.  

People don't understand that that's the compromise that was struck with student loans.  They are unsecured.  The government is the one that secures them, and that is also the reason why student loans aren't banruptciable.  In exchange for the low rates, you can't get out of the obligation.  

If the loans come with 30 points then people won’t take them. It’s a crazy thing called a free market. If colleges see their enrollment dwindling due to students not being able to afford tuition then... wait for it... they will lower tuition. It’s black magic I know. 

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1 hour ago, Lhalo said:

I get a kick out of people who think “Wall Street” is some mythical group of about a dozen white old men hanging around a conference table laughing maniacally while lighting their cigars with c-notes. “Wall Street” is most of America. It’s anyone who has a pension or a 401k. It’s the greeter at Walmart, the cable guy or anyone else that works at a publicly traded company. If you want to try to solve this country’s student debt problem by taxing the ever loving shit out of Wall Street then prepare to reap the windfall of taxes being passed on down to workers and customers alike. In other words the average Joe will still take it in the ass. 

Except there's a big difference between a Walmart greeter and a hedge fund manager, especially when it comes to taxing speculation.

Income inequality is a real thing and getting worse. The Horatio Alger story is nothing more than a mythic ideal that works for some but not for most. 

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1 hour ago, Lhalo said:

I get a kick out of people who think “Wall Street” is some mythical group of about a dozen white old men hanging around a conference table laughing maniacally while lighting their cigars with c-notes. “Wall Street” is most of America. It’s anyone who has a pension or a 401k. It’s the greeter at Walmart, the cable guy or anyone else that works at a publicly traded company. If you want to try to solve this country’s student debt problem by taxing the ever loving shit out of Wall Street then prepare to reap the windfall of taxes being passed on down to workers and customers alike. In other words the average Joe will still take it in the ass. 

Cmon man, don’t be a dick.  AJ doesn’t know much about grown up life, he didn’t mean anything by it.

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4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

For the sake of accuracy, Bernie Sanders plans to pay for this through taxing Wall Street speculation. His plans, and Democratic Socialism in general, tend to be about redistribution of wealth through taxing the wealthy to provide better services for the poor. So if this negatively effects you, it means that you are already wealthy. Meaning, it may reduce your Wall Street profits, while at the same time greatly improving the financial situation of 45 million Americans.

How does this help poor people without student loan debt (basically most f’ing poor people)? 

If you want to redistribute wealth, how about not redistribute it to Chad and Kelsey? 

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Calscuf, your idea of "grown up" is straight out of the school of Gordon Gecko.  In my mind being "grown up" involves giving a shit about others and creating a society in which as many people as possible have the basic necessities of life. Hey, Warren Buffett agrees with me. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/26/warren-buffett-on-wealth-inequality-us-should-take-care-of-its-own.html

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Just now, calscuf said:

How does this help poor people without student loan debt (basically most f’ing poor people)? 

If you want to redistribute wealth, how about not redistribute it to Chad and Kelsey? 

Student loan forgiveness is just one avenue - there are many others, such as Medicare for all, increased minimum wage, enforcing corporate taxes, raising taxes on the very wealthy, etc. As Bernie has said a million times, there's no reason a country as wealthy as the US should have as many people struggling, in debt, homeless, unable to pay for basic medications, etc. 

 

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