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I've been resisting it, but...we're gonna lose Trout


Glen

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1 hour ago, YouthofToday said:

3. Other players and the union will put pressure on Trout to file for free agency. If healthy his deal would reestablish the top of the market. I expect the relationship between the union and MLB to deteriorate rapidly between now and December 2021, when the current CBA expires.

I don’t buy this. It’s not like he’s going to sign for some discount. He’s going to sign for the largest deal ever, even if he signs now. No one is going to tell him not to take that. The only way he doesn’t take it is if he just doesn’t want to commit to the Angels. 

I also don’t believe the union really pressures anyone to do anything with regard to contracts. It’s not like there’s some union rep involved between the player, the agent and the team. 

Edited by Jeff Fletcher
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There's enough talent and financial flexibility in this org for the team to be a world series contender starting within the next year or two.  I understand that's a hard sell for most considering what has happened over the last 10 years, but it's true.  

It's actually pretty ballsy on Eppler's part to proceed as he has over the last three years.  The temptation to move heaven and earth and optimize the major league club around the best player in baseball must have been tremendous.  Instead, a first time GM bets on himself and his team's ability to develop young talent.  Which means he did so knowing that Trout's contract has an obvious expiration date.   That in order to create a true winner, you can't just blow it all around one guy for a couple years worth of chance.  

That's how you build a contender.  That's how you build around your star player.  I hope Trout recognizes this.  That any GM can throw $250 mil at a guy for 10 years or $330 mil at another guy for 13 years.  Any GM can trade away their top 2-3 prospects and grab a star player with 2 years of control.  Or sign a 32 yo declining player to a $50m deal.  

But can they turn the worst farm in baseball into a top 10 system in 3 years?  Can they sign the best foreign prospect ever when money isn't the deciding factor?  Does that GM have the discipline, in the face of all the obvious pressures, to do the right thing and wait for the right time?  

The opportunity to spend a gagillion dollars or a shit ton of prospects on star players will always be there.  I can accomplish that from my keyboard.  If Mike Trout or any other player doesn't recognize what the Angels have done over the last three years isn't boiler plate off the shelf GM stuff then I'm not sure what to say to them.  

So when it comes time, do you want to be on the team that is doing it like anyone else can or on the team that is doing things that others haven't been able to.  

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11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

It's actually pretty ballsy on Eppler's part to proceed as he has over the last three years.  The temptation to move heaven and earth and optimize the major league club around the best player in baseball must have been tremendous.  Instead, a first time GM bets on himself and his team's ability to develop young talent.  Which means he did so knowing that Trout's contract has an obvious expiration date.

Either that or he has assumed all along that Trout would re-sign because he’s talked to Trout and Moreno frequently and knows what both want. 

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50 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Either that or he has assumed all along that Trout would re-sign because he’s talked to Trout and Moreno frequently and knows what both want. 

I think that's an accurate portrayal of what has and is occurring. Eppler seems to be pretty good at connecting with people,  and starting connected to them. 

But it also appears to me that Eppler had also prepared for Trout to leave.  There is drafting upside and then there's drafting potential Trout clones not once or twice as a means of replacing that production, but they've drafted several, all back to back. The way I perceive this is simply stocking on one entity in order to protect the replacement plan from failing.

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6 minutes ago, Second Base said:

I think that's an accurate portrayal of what has and is occurring. Eppler seems to be pretty good at connecting with people,  and starting connected to them. 

But it also appears to me that Eppler had also prepared for Trout to leave.  There is drafting upside and then there's drafting potential Trout clones not once or twice as a means of replacing that production, but they've drafted several, all back to back. The way I perceive this is simply stocking on one entity in order to protect the replacement plan from failing.

actually don't see it that way at all.  I think Eppler drafted players with the most talent regardless of position and regardless of what he thought Trout would do.  I think his first year of the draft was influenced by Wilson and getting a college 1b bat in the first round is about as vanilla as vanilla can be.  Everyone since has been a 5 star athlete or players that dropped for reasons that weren't justified.  Also, elite athletes are the best bet in the draft.  Especially those with strong makeup.  

No one can replace Trout.  He's trying to compile as much talent as possible.  

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4 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

actually don't see it that way at all.  I think Eppler drafted players with the most talent regardless of position and regardless of what he thought Trout would do.  I think his first year of the draft was influenced by Wilson and getting a college 1b bat in the first round is about as vanilla as vanilla can be.  Everyone since has been a 5 star athlete or players that dropped for reasons that weren't justified.  Also, elite athletes are the best bet in the draft.  Especially those with strong makeup.  

No one can replace Trout.  He's trying to compile as much talent as possible.  

Yeah I agree. 

I don’t think you can look at 2 (Jo Adell and Jordyn Adams) that happen to be athletic center fielders and say it’s a trend. It’s 2 players. He’s just taking the best athletes possible, which could be his way of upgrading the farm system or could be just his overall preference anyway. Either way, it has nothing to do with Trout.

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There is no one comparable to Trout ATM. Trout is compared with Mantle a lot. But during Mantle's playing days there was at least one player that matched his skills pretty closely, Willie Mays and too a lesser extent Duke Snider.

Last Year Mookie Betts matched up with Trout pretty well. Every year it seems a different player emerges to compete for the MVP with Trout. but there is never that one player that is consistently on a par with Trout.

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28 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

There is no one comparable to Trout ATM. Trout is compared with Mantle a lot. But during Mantle's playing days there was at least one player that matched his skills pretty closely, Willie Mays and too a lesser extent Duke Snider.

Last Year Mookie Betts matched up with Trout pretty well. Every year it seems a different player emerges to compete for the MVP with Trout. but there is never that one player that is consistently on a par with Trout.

it's Trout vs. the field every year.  1 or 2 players will be on par with him for that year but over the span of his career, no one comes close.  That's what make him the best.  

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Let's see, there are a few options:

1) Trout is staying and Eppler knows he's staying (they're just working out the details). 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

2) Trout is leaving and Eppler knows he's leaving.

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

3) Trout isn't sure and wants to see how things pan out this year. 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

 

Can we go back to sweet lineups, bitching about Pujols, and making Scioscia Italian jokes?

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1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Yeah I agree. 

I don’t think you can look at 2 (Jo Adell and Jordyn Adams) that happen to be athletic center fielders and say it’s a trend. It’s 2 players. He’s just taking the best athletes possible, which could be his way of upgrading the farm system or could be just his overall preference anyway. Either way, it has nothing to do with Trout.

I think he's going for players with the highest possible ceiling regardless of position.  In the first round that is because he knows that the drop off is severe after that.  Whoever it is, I think he takes the best athlete with the most upside but I wouldn't be surprised if it's another OFer because it seems that's where the best athletes are available where we pick.  It would be different if we were picking earlier.  

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52 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Let's see, there are a few options:

1) Trout is staying and Eppler knows he's staying (they're just working out the details). 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

2) Trout is leaving and Eppler knows he's leaving.

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

3) Trout isn't sure and wants to see how things pan out this year. 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

 

Can we go back to sweet lineups, bitching about Pujols, and making Scioscia Italian jokes?

Trout is really going to be well-read this season.

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1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Let's see, there are a few options:

1) Trout is staying and Eppler knows he's staying (they're just working out the details). 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

2) Trout is leaving and Eppler knows he's leaving.

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

3) Trout isn't sure and wants to see how things pan out this year. 

= Trout not saying much of anything to press, focusing on getting read for the season.

 

Can we go back to sweet lineups, bitching about Pujols, and making Scioscia Italian jokes?

I choose door #1.

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2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

^I understand the logic but at some point positional depth has to come into play. I mean, at this point I'd rather they draft a potential 50 or even 45 FV catcher than a 55 FV center fielder.

why?  a 45 current value catcher costs you 10 mil per and a 40 present value catcher is Lucroy at 3.5 mil.  

you have to get so far along in farm depth to make positional value in the draft actually mean something.  Getting a guy like Cron or Bour is pretty easy on the cheap as well.  

what you really want is a way to get a 60-65 FV outside of the top 5 picks.  You're never going to get that by drafting a MIF with a pick in the mid first round.  You could take a chance on a HS pitcher but the injury risk is very high.  

so you're left with an OFer.  Check out the best players in baseball.  How many are top 5 picks?  How many of those are IFers.  Of the other top players, how many are OFers drafted all over the place.  

then ask yourself where you're going to get replacements at the major league level and where your highest level of production comes from.  

Not saying the plan is foolproof by any means.  You've got to pick kids with half a brain.  Not the Hunter Greens or Chevy Clarks of the world.  So it's not just about picking the athletic OFer.  Its about picking the one that is intelligent and has a strong support system.  Like an Adell or Adams.  

Worst case you make some trades.  A 55 grade anything is worth more than a 45 grade anything on the trade market.  

My point is that you're only gonna get hrs in the mid first round on HS athletes.  

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I get it, Doc. I just wonder when the breaking point is? Meaning, how close does the gap between a toolsy outfielder and a catcher have to be, in terms of FV, for it to become tempting to take the lower FV at a position of greater need?

Let's say its our pick and you can either take someone who could be a 60 FV outfielder or someone who could be a 55 FV catcher. I assume you take the catcher? I would, without thinking too much about it. 60 and 50 becomes questionable and it would really depend upon the specific prospects in question. 60 and 45 I take the higher FV player, no problem. So somewhere around 10 difference is where it gets tricky - for me. What about you? And, more importantly, what about Eppler?

 

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