Angels reclaim Cowart....

[Second Base]

Obviously the two-way player thing is going to become much more common in the coming years.  The big difference here is that these two-way players share VERY LITTLE resemblance to Shohei Ohtani. 

Ohtani is a DH and starting pitcher.  Him being on the roster really doesn't actually save you any roster space to speak of.  Shohei also happens to be an absolute star at both.  Being that good at two things is a rarity in the past 100 years and it will continue to be a rarity for the next 100 years more than likely.  These two way players that are coming out now are more or less utility infielders that can cover some garbage time out of the bullpen as well.  They actually save space on the roster in a way that Ohtani doesn't, but they also aren't exactly going to be stars at both of these either. 

So we call them both two-way players, but they function differently.

And I think as far as guys getting drafted as two-way players, that's nothing new.  Brendan McKay and William English this past year, and Hunter Green the year before.  But the minor leagues has a way of sifting one part of these guys' games out.  Take Casey Kelly as an example.  High draft pick of the Red Sox, got to play SS and pitcher to start.  But he just wasn't hitting as a shortstop, so he abandoned that part of his game and became a pitcher.  Even made it to the major leagues too. 

Now even an exciting prospect like McKay, that has generated some hype.  The fact of the matter is, he hit .214 in A Ball/High A as a 22 year old. He had a TON more success on the mound.  So right now, there's really nothing that separates him from someone like Madison Bumgarner at the plate.  Neither is comparable to Ohtani. Ohtani is only 6 months older than McKay and is already one of the best hitters and pitchers in the major leagues.

One is an ace and a middle of the order hitter in his early twenties.  The other is likely an ace, and maybe a power bat off the bench once he reaches his mid-20's. 

Again, comparing two very different things.  Ohtani is still a unicorn. 

[Lou]

great post, Scotty. 

any new guy attempting to be a two-way player will only prove just how amazing Ohtani is. 

[T.G.]

22 minutes ago, Lou said:

great post, Scotty. 

any new guy attempting to be a two-way player will only prove just how amazing Ohtani is. 

I agree.  Not in a "ha-ha kind of way" - but I actually do agree! 

[Stradling]

I love Scotty’s post as well, the only thing I disagree with is Ohtani isn’t a star pitcher.  Can he or will he, I think the chances are pretty good he will be.  However he pitched 10 games, had TJ surgery, so he is potentially a star pitcher in my mind.  He is a star hitter as he proved that over the course of the entire season.  Thing is it doesn’t matter.  If he was a solid #2-3 pitcher and the hitter he was last year he is an absolute beast and creates such value on a team.  

[Dtwncbad]

Hypothetical question.

Who would you rather use a roster spot on right this second?

A 39 year old Rick Ankiel trying to make a comeback as a situational lefty or Cowart?

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 2/24/2019 at 9:15 AM, Dochalo said:

definition of a two-way player - ability to both hit and pitch.  

anyone? 

one out of two ain't bad...... And the jury is still out on the one~

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

The Two way player sounds like it has so many positives. However, most can't do it with any consistency and the reason why is pitching is different than basic fielding. Arms need breaks. period. Also, then you have the need to warm up. So, if the player was a key pitcher then you would need him to come off the field in order to warm up and he has already been taken out of the game so there is no re-entry rule. So, the only way to do this is to be a pitcher first and a fielder 2nd. Most pitchers require more than 5-6 warm up pitches (So, coming into a certain spot in the game from a defensive position wouldn't make sense). Even being a relief pitcher who could get loose quickly it took me 10-15 warm ups off the mound after 5 tosses depending on how long between games pitched and innings used and other times I had warmed up previously during the game.. Also, if the defensive player was that important as a pitcher then coming in mid inning would also provide other issues. due to warming up and then substituting defensively ... Removing the Pitcher and placing a new INFer or OFer would require the removing of the DH in the game. As the new fielder would take the place of the DH. And if he is a pitcher 1st and you are taking him out of the game. If the pitcher had just walked the bases full or imploded would you really want a pissed of defensively player who may not be able to make a play as he was still focused on his pitching? Get out, decompress, blow it away! It would take an entirely different mental make up! 

Ohtani does this more and takes the day off before and the day after and he only DH's. Being an actual fielder or playing a regular position while also being say a setup man in the Bully. Would equate to too much throwing. Especially, when mechanics are involved. 

If Ohtani played defensively, I would say no as well. Even at 1st base is a different throw and release point during INF, and in between inning ground balls compared to the mechanics of pitching (under hand flip "for grounders" or a "plant" one step throw for a cut off). The closest of the same would be a throw from the OF. But, then you risk injury of coming up throwing and or diving for a ball into the wall....

 

It makes for an exciting write up for SPT and or a feel good story! Otherwise, short of the DH spot as Ohtani it makes zero sense! 

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, Stradling said:

I love Scotty’s post as well, the only thing I disagree with is Ohtani isn’t a star pitcher.  Can he or will he, I think the chances are pretty good he will be.  However he pitched 10 games, had TJ surgery, so he is potentially a star pitcher in my mind.  He is a star hitter as he proved that over the course of the entire season.  Thing is it doesn’t matter.  If he was a solid #2-3 pitcher and the hitter he was last year he is an absolute beast and creates such value on a team.  

Splitting hairs, but I would argue that Ohtani is a star on the mound.  When he was healthy, which he was for only like 8 of those starts, Ohtani was as unhittable as anyone in baseball. Match him up with Scherzer or Verlander or anyone else and Ohtani is right up there with them as a pitcher.  So he is a star.  He's just an injured star.  But again, splitting hairs.