The Official 2019 Angels Spring Training News & Gameday Thread

[Troll Daddy]

12 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ward, probably 30%.  He just has to beat out Fletcher.  

Fletcher will be difficult to beat out. He can play both 2nd or 3rd and is a better fit in the lineup imo. 

 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

Fletcher will be difficult to beat out. He can play both 2nd or 3rd and is a better fit in the lineup imo. 

 

If he beats out Fletcher, LaStella can do the same thing as Fletcher.  Ward doesn’t play defense nearly as well as Fletcher, but if he plays a passable third base, he has more pop than Fletcher, runs the bases equally well, and draws more walks.  

[Docwaukee]

La Stella is going to platoon with whoever wins the 2b/3b job not named Cozart.  Rengifo has a 1% chance at most.  Ward has a 30% chance to make the roster over Fletcher.  

60/40 Bourjos/ Herm.  

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Fletcher will be difficult to beat out. He can play both 2nd or 3rd and is a better fit in the lineup imo. 

 

they also have Fletch seeing some time in the OF.  

[Troll Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

La Stella is going to platoon with whoever wins the 2b/3b job not named Cozart.  Rengifo has a 1% chance at most.  Ward has a 30% chance to make the roster over Fletcher.  

60/40 Bourjos/ Herm.  

I don’t see how thirty days in ST is going to change anything for Ward after his abysmal hitting last season. It would be risky to give him a starters job out of the gate. 

10% 

[Docwaukee]

6 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I don’t see how thirty days in ST is going to change anything for Ward after his abysmal hitting last season. It would be risky to give him a starters job out of the gate. 

10% 

It's not just about 30 days of spring.  The Angels are going to be looking for particular adjustments  He's got a higher ceiling than fletcher and his success means more to the long term success of the team.  So they're going to give him a legit shot.  Many/most players struggle in their first call up.  I wouldn't let 135 at bats be the end all be all of our Taylor Ward final eval.  Also, it's not like Fletcher lit the world on fire at the plate.  He's more suited to a util role long term.  

I'd actually like to see them consider keeping both and let Fletcher handle the 4th OFer role.  Or even give Ward some time in RF.  Both have strong arms and are athletic.  Also, Bour isn't very good vs. lefties and Ward has actually been very good vs.them throughout his minor league career.   

Fletcher certainly has the advantage so call it whatever % you'd like, but I don't think his spot is a formality.  

[Chuck]

Can someone tell me why La Stella is a lock to make this team and what's so good about him?

No power or speed..can play a few positions, but offers a lite bat IMO. 

All things being equal I think Fletcher is a better guy to have on the 25-man,  not La Stella and especially not as a platoon starter 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

Can someone tell me why La Stella is a lock to make this team and what's so good about him?

No power or speed..can play a few positions, but offers a lite bat IMO. 

All things being equal I think Fletcher is a better guy to have on the 25-man,  not La Stella and especially not as a platoon starter 

.345 obp

[Taylor]

11 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Can someone tell me why La Stella is a lock to make this team and what's so good about him?

No power or speed..can play a few positions, but offers a lite bat IMO. 

All things being equal I think Fletcher is a better guy to have on the 25-man,  not La Stella and especially not as a platoon starter 

We need a 2019 version of Valbuena/Danny Espinosa.

[WeatherWonk]

2 hours ago, Taylor said:

We need a 2019 version of Valbuena/Danny Espinosa.

It will be the Pujols/Bour combo, most likely.

[floplag]

14 hours ago, Dochalo said:

.345 obp

AKA moneyball, the only thing that matters anymore
I sometimes hate what baseball is becoming... 

[Docwaukee]

Just now, floplag said:

AKA moneyball, the only thing that matters anymore
I sometimes hate what baseball is becoming... 

obp ceased being and undervalued 'moneyball' item about 10 years ago.  

that one just makes old school sense actually.  put a guy who get on base 35% of the time in front of Trout, Ohtani, Upton and Bour.  He's also fairly versatile and can also hit lefties as well as rhers.  

as an aside, the team put up a .160 avg in PH appearances last year.  wRC+ of 67 and that includes Ohtani being stellar with a wRC+ of 197 which means that just about everyone else was utterly miserable.  

Really what the team needs is to replace the -3.0 wins from the 900 PA or so that came from Valbuena, Blash, Young, Young jr, Cowart, and Marte.  If you can get a win total from two to three guys taking those at bats, you are 4 wins better.   

La Stella has averaged half a win per 150 PA the last three years.  

[Dick Enberg]

15 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Can someone tell me why La Stella is a lock to make this team and what's so good about him?

No power or speed..can play a few positions, but offers a lite bat IMO. 

All things being equal I think Fletcher is a better guy to have on the 25-man,  not La Stella and especially not as a platoon starter 

 

15 hours ago, Dochalo said:

.345 obp

Hits left handed too

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

obp ceased being and undervalued 'moneyball' item about 10 years ago.  

that one just makes old school sense actually.  put a guy who get on base 35% of the time in front of Trout, Ohtani, Upton and Bour.  He's also fairly versatile and can also hit lefties as well as rhers.  

as an aside, the team put up a .160 avg in PH appearances last year.  wRC+ of 67 and that includes Ohtani being stellar with a wRC+ of 197 which means that just about everyone else was utterly miserable.  

Really what the team needs is to replace the -3.0 wins from the 900 PA or so that came from Valbuena, Blash, Young, Young jr, Cowart, and Marte.  If you can get a win total from two to three guys taking those at bats, you are 4 wins better.   

La Stella has averaged half a win per 150 PA the last three years.  

im well aware of the why it has value Doc, its the effect on other parts of the game i do not appreciate as a fan. 
Its killed the running game, aggressive hitting early in counts, taking extra bases, almost anything that has anything to do with risk and made for more boring baseball, even if it is statistically more successful baseball. 

[Docwaukee]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

im well aware of the why it has value Doc, its the effect on other parts of the game i do not appreciate as a fan. 
Its killed the running game, aggressive hitting early in counts, taking extra bases, almost anything that has anything to do with risk and made for more boring baseball, even if it is statistically more successful baseball. 

Chuck asked why we brought him in and my answer was simple in that his value comes mostly from his obp.  

the impact on those other parts of the game you mention aren't because of obp but because of advanced metrics and analytics.  And I agree that a lot of it has to do with risk avoidance.  

I also agree that it can be boring as hell at times.  I'm a numbers guy so I am fortunate to be able to enjoy other parts of the game as a substitute.  Yet I can certainly see how others don't.  

But three true outcomes baseball isn't all that appealing to most.  

That's another reason I am excited about our farm system.  

Here are the speed grades from mlb's top prospect list on the halos;

Adell - 65
Marsh - 60
Jones - 60
Adams - 80
Knowles - 60
Hermosillo - 60
Deveaux - 80

So of our top 11 position player prospects (of our top 17 total), 7 of them have 60 grade speed or higher.  They're also all good to really good at fielding their positions.  Rengifo is at 55 grade for run btw.  

It's not just about seeing better, younger players, but more exciting ones as well.  



 

[floplag]

22 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Chuck asked why we brought him in and my answer was simple in that his value comes mostly from his obp.  

the impact on those other parts of the game you mention aren't because of obp but because of advanced metrics and analytics.  And I agree that a lot of it has to do with risk avoidance.  

I also agree that it can be boring as hell at times.  I'm a numbers guy so I am fortunate to be able to enjoy other parts of the game as a substitute.  Yet I can certainly see how others don't.  

But three true outcomes baseball isn't all that appealing to most.  

That's another reason I am excited about our farm system.  

Here are the speed grades from mlb's top prospect list on the halos;

Adell - 65
Marsh - 60
Jones - 60
Adams - 80
Knowles - 60
Hermosillo - 60
Deveaux - 80

So of our top 11 position player prospects (of our top 17 total), 7 of them have 60 grade speed or higher.  They're also all good to really good at fielding their positions.  Rengifo is at 55 grade for run btw.  

It's not just about seeing better, younger players, but more exciting ones as well.  



 

Yes ill admit i kinda hijacked the topic, sorry for that, but i see things like that that put the reason squarely on moneyball based metrics and it just... irritates me.  I realize the math is sound, i just hate the result in terms of fun and excitement.
As for the farm, all the speed in the world has little value when they dont get to use it.  Trout and Ohtani are among the fastest in the league, they had a combined 34 SB last year.  As a team, we led the league in SB %, but were 11th in actual SB.  6 teams had more successful SB than we had total attempts.   This makes little sense when those 2 plus Simmons who can also run well were on the squad.  Unless we have a large shift in desire to actual try to steal more, which i kinda doubt with more emphasis on analytics.
Its just my opinion, im not a fan of anything moneyball related due to how its affected the game as a whole so anything based on it draws my ire even if it is accurate. 

[Stradling]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yes ill admit i kinda hijacked the topic, sorry for that, but i see things like that that put the reason squarely on moneyball based metrics and it just... irritates me.  I realize the math is sound, i just hate the result in terms of fun and excitement.
As for the farm, all the speed in the world has little value when they dont get to use it.  Trout and Ohtani are among the fastest in the league, they had a combined 34 SB last year.  As a team, we led the league in SB %, but were 11th in actual SB.  6 teams had more successful SB than we had total attempts.   This makes little sense when those 2 plus Simmons who can also run well were on the squad.  Unless we have a large shift in desire to actual try to steal more, which i kinda doubt with more emphasis on analytics.
Its just my opinion, im not a fan of anything moneyball related due to how its affected the game as a whole so anything based on it draws my ire even if it is accurate. 

Trout is allowed to use it and has always had the green light.  Ohtani probably go tthe green light after he stopped pitching.  

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yes ill admit i kinda hijacked the topic, sorry for that, but i see things like that that put the reason squarely on moneyball based metrics and it just... irritates me.  I realize the math is sound, i just hate the result in terms of fun and excitement.
As for the farm, all the speed in the world has little value when they dont get to use it.  Trout and Ohtani are among the fastest in the league, they had a combined 34 SB last year.  As a team, we led the league in SB %, but were 11th in actual SB.  6 teams had more successful SB than we had total attempts.   This makes little sense when those 2 plus Simmons who can also run well were on the squad.  Unless we have a large shift in desire to actual try to steal more, which i kinda doubt with more emphasis on analytics.
Its just my opinion, im not a fan of anything moneyball related due to how its affected the game as a whole so anything based on it draws my ire even if it is accurate. 

it's not just about SBs.  Those players impact the game with their speed regardless.  Beating out grounders.  Putting pressure on defenses so they make more errors.  Taking an extra base.  In Trout and Simmons cases it allows them to play superior defense.  SB's have a higher incidence of injury.  

Moneyball isn't what you hate.  It's the outcome of the attempt to find undervalued players that you hate.  Moneyball isn't about obp.  It's about finding ways to score more runs or prevent more runs with players that have unrecognized value due to whatever statistic.  Not just obp.  Consequently, since most people didn't realize a certain ability to do something had value, then you can acquire it more cheaply.  

Once teams started to pay market value for obp, then it was no longer a moneyball item.  Then it shifted to defense as a moneyball skill.  Now we are seeing teams going after greater versatility like guys who can play 4 or 5 positions or even two way players.  Teams used to pay big money for closers.  Then that went away for a bit.  Yet at the deadline you see teams paying out the wazoo for a dominant reliever because they see the value in the playoffs.  Coming into vogue is the opener.  My guess is that will evolve into teams trying to find value in pitchers that can pitch 2, 3, 4 innings.  

A 'moneyball' stat or skill could end up being guys with more bat control that can beat shifts and defenses with greater consistency. 

Something the Halos are doing now which is to use tech to eval pitchers and hitters and improve their game instead of assuming they are who they are.  Maybe that's why then went and got a guy like Cahill or Harvey or Lucroy.  Using technology to identify that minor tweak instead of solely relying on what the human eye can detect.  

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Trout is allowed to use it and has always had the green light.  Ohtani probably go tthe green light after he stopped pitching.  

Having a green light isnt the same thing as being encouraged to run more and use it.

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

it's not just about SBs.  Those players impact the game with their speed regardless.  Beating out grounders.  Putting pressure on defenses so they make more errors.  Taking an extra base.  In Trout and Simmons cases it allows them to play superior defense.  SB's have a higher incidence of injury.  

Moneyball isn't what you hate.  It's the outcome of the attempt to find undervalued players that you hate.  Moneyball isn't about obp.  It's about finding ways to score more runs or prevent more runs with players that have unrecognized value due to whatever statistic.  Not just obp.  Consequently, since most people didn't realize a certain ability to do something had value, then you can acquire it more cheaply.  

Once teams started to pay market value for obp, then it was no longer a moneyball item.  Then it shifted to defense as a moneyball skill.  Now we are seeing teams going after greater versatility like guys who can play 4 or 5 positions or even two way players.  Teams used to pay big money for closers.  Then that went away for a bit.  Yet at the deadline you see teams paying out the wazoo for a dominant reliever because they see the value in the playoffs.  Coming into vogue is the opener.  My guess is that will evolve into teams trying to find value in pitchers that can pitch 2, 3, 4 innings.  

A 'moneyball' stat or skill could end up being guys with more bat control that can beat shifts and defenses with greater consistency. 

Something the Halos are doing now which is to use tech to eval pitchers and hitters and improve their game instead of assuming they are who they are.  Maybe that's why then went and got a guy like Cahill or Harvey or Lucroy.  Using technology to identify that minor tweak instead of solely relying on what the human eye can detect.  

No, thats not it at all, please dont make assumptions like that when you have no idea where other peoples minds are.  

I liked what the As did in the beginning, i liked them finding those niche skills... i thought it was a great way for small markets to try to maintain some measure of competitive spirit... but of course it wasnt only them that glommed onto it was it.  Everyone else copied it for all the wrong reasons. Why do you think we are where we are with the coming labor problems?   These things dont develop without something adding fuel to the mix.   

What we are seeing today IS the new moneyball.  Teams not wanting to pay for player on the wrong side of 30 yet wanting to keep control below it and devaluing players based on stats that used to have value.  Think back 10-20 years , would a guy with power that couldnt hit 250 keep a job regardless of high walk rates?  It used to be walks were something you settled for and hitting was the priority, now its the exact opposite. 

THAT, is what i dont like, what its done to the game as a whole.  Who the hell wants to pay $200 to take the family to a live action strat-o-matic game? 

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

No, thats not it at all, please dont make assumptions like that when you have no idea where other peoples minds are.  

I liked what the As did in the beginning, i liked them finding those niche skills... i thought it was a great way for small markets to try to maintain some measure of competitive spirit... but of course it wasnt only them that glommed onto it was it.  Everyone else copied it for all the wrong reasons. Why do you think we are where we are with the coming labor problems?   These things dont develop without something adding fuel to the mix.   

What we are seeing today IS the new moneyball.  Teams not wanting to pay for player on the wrong side of 30 yet wanting to keep control below it and devaluing players based on stats that used to have value.  Think back 10-20 years , would a guy with power that couldnt hit 250 keep a job regardless of high walk rates?  It used to be walks were something you settled for and hitting was the priority, now its the exact opposite. 

THAT, is what i dont like, what its done to the game as a whole.  Who the hell wants to pay $200 to take the family to a live action strat-o-matic game? 

I am only responding to what you have written.  

I am not arguing that it isn't boring.  The 'old stats't that used to have value have been proven not to as much as other stats.  It is as you say it is in that everyone latched on to it but it wasn't for the wrong reasons.  It was to make their teams better using less money.  

If the fans are being punished as a result and lose interest then they will stop spending money to watch and the game will evolve appropriately.  Hopefully they can adjust prior to that.  

I agree that the game needs to change, but it's never going to go back to teams paying for a skill or stat that has very little correlation as to whether you win or lose.  There's just too much money at stake 

[Troll Daddy]

 

[Troll Daddy]

 

[Vlad27Trout27]

quick question, are both Marsh and Jones invited or are at spring training this year?

[Tank]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:18 PM, Taylor said:

I'm glad that guy am still exist.

Thank you, HaloThunder.