Dont hold your breath on an Angels-Arenado signing next year

[UndertheHalo]

Not really a surprise.  The Rockies have a history of signing their guys. 

[CanadianHalo]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Someone on here. 

You know who I’m talking about when it comes to Arenado

[Second Base]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Next year Houston will probably lose Verlander and Cole to FA, and Ohtani has a chance at being the next big thing in pitching. Next year has the makings of a very good year for the Angels with Adell in RF, and Canning joining Ohtani in the rotation.

Just would really like to make the playoffs this season and take the division next year and extend Trout to make him an Angel for life.

I think the Astros situation is an interesting one. They have a bit of a balancing act to make. They play in a large enough market to maintain a payroll up north of 175 million year in and year out. And in order to keep their star players like Springer, Correa, Bregman, Cole, Verlander and Keuchel, they'll need to spend all of it. But at the same time, they've got a strong upper farm system that's ready to bare fruit. 

So spend and extend your window of contention by 2-3 years, or not spend and get worse yet more sustainable long term. 

Either way, the Angels will catch them or pass them in 2020, and the A's have a pretty incredible group of arms arriving in 2020 that will make them a consistent threat. No one worries about the Rangers because you need actual prospects for a rebuild but they're too concerned with recapturing prominence before the new ball park opens to keep fans engaged. Abd no one worries about the Mariners because with Dipoto and Servais leading that team, they won't be a consistent threat for at least 5 years after they're gone and both just got extended. That organization is screwed.

[rottiesworld]

Yeah we will be after everyone but only sign some low cost peanuts like this year.  The only one might be the extension of Trout if we don’t do it this season.

[Stradling]

20 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

You know who I’m talking about when it comes to Arenado

Could be a long list of people. 

[Troll Daddy]

4 hours ago, floplag said:

Or maybe he doesnt want to deal with what Harper and Machado are dealing with and it has nothing to do with it either way in the current climate?  

Harper/Machado are doing just fine ... at the end of the day that are set for life. Who here thought they would get signed sooner than later?

[Angel Oracle]

7 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Harper/Machado are doing just fine ... at the end of the day that are set for life. Who here thought they would get signed sooner than later?

It’s crazy that they won’t be signed when ST starts.   No other sport has that happen.

[floplag]

33 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Harper/Machado are doing just fine ... at the end of the day that are set for life. Who here thought they would get signed sooner than later?

I dont think anyone thought sooner, but i also dont think anyone thought near this late either. 

[Troll Daddy]

27 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

It’s crazy that they won’t be signed when ST starts.   No other sport has that happen.

Still almost 2 weeks until ST ... JD Martinez didn’t sign until Feb 19th. 

[Troll Daddy]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

I dont think anyone thought sooner, but i also dont think anyone thought near this late either. 

Do you think their signing late will effect the Angels in any way? 

[JarsOfClay]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Either way, the Angels will catch them or pass them in 2020, and the A's have a pretty incredible group of arms arriving in 2020 that will make them a consistent threat. 

How do you figure the Angels will catch or pass them when the angels have only 2-3 good prospects on the horizon while the astros have 5-6 really good prospects while being 26 games ahead?

I never understood this narrative.

[Stradling]

42 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

How do you figure the Angels will catch or pass them when the angels have only 2-3 good prospects on the horizon while the astros have 5-6 really good prospects while being 26 games ahead?

I never understood this narrative.

You need to read more prospect rankings, because you’re wrong.  They have two really good prospects.   We have the same amount in the top 100.   Depending on who you believe our farm is ranked higher.  

[Revad]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Someone on here. 

Wasn’t it on Fox news?

[Second Base]

54 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

How do you figure the Angels will catch or pass them when the angels have only 2-3 good prospects on the horizon while the astros have 5-6 really good prospects while being 26 games ahead?

I never understood this narrative.

I think that overview is so simplistic that it fails to account for pretty much everything.

1. Yes, the Astros were 26 games better, this is true. But those 26 games were the result of Verlander, Morton and Cole having career years and the presence of Keuchel and an unexpected tear from White. This also required an Ohtani injury, a Richards injury, a Skaggs injury, a Ramirez injury, a Middleton injury, a Cozart injury, Upton not hitting with RISP for the only time in his career and Kole Calhoun completely tanking. Everything went right for the Astros, everything went wrong for the Angels. The real difference between the two teams at optimum capacity is likely 10 games, not even close to 26.

2. In 2020, if Verlander abd Cole walk, and assuming Keuchel isn't returning, and the Angels get Ohtani back in the rotation, you're going to see a shift of power.

3. The Astros mainly have Whitley and Tucker coming in, unless you count James who already arrived. Whitley is the real deal, but also already has a PED suspension under his belt, and Tucker's numbers are inflated by the PCL and for all that talent, the Astros have still been shopping him around and have been reluctant to give him any sort of playing time. The Angels on the other hand have Adell and Canning arriving as the big two, but have a wave of supplementals arriving in the next two years which includes Luis Rengifo, Matt Thaiss, Michael Hermosillo, Jose Suarez, Pat Sandoval, Jake Jewell, Brandon Marsh and Jahmai Jones.

4. The Astros will need to spend some serious money to remain elite, while the Angels are about to free up 60 million over the next year or two.

I think the Angels are going to start winning 90+ games a year beginning in 2020, and I'm not alone in this belief. After this next wave of prospects, we've got another one coming in right after that which includes Chris Rodriguez, Jose Soriano, Aaron Hernandez, Kyle Bradish, Luis Madero, Kevin Maitan, Jordyn Adams, Jeremiah Jackson, D'Shawn Knowles and Trent Deveaux.

The Angels haven't had this much talent in the minors in 20 years, and we saw the run they went on between 2002 and 2009. That's what's about to go down. 2020-2030 is going to be pretty fun for fans of this team.

[totdprods]

Cole also isn’t the only horse that’ll be available for us to hitch our cart too either.

Bumgarner, Arrieta, Verlander, Strasburg, Sale, Wacha, Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi, Gibson, Chacin, Wood, Mikolas, Hill, Hamels, Sabathia, and lotsa guys who could bounce back Hellickson, Cahill, Harvey, Perez, Teheran, Pomeranz, Porcello, Ross, etc.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Cole also isn’t the only horse that’ll be available for us to hitch our cart too either.

Bumgarner, Arrieta, Verlander, Strasburg, Sale, Wacha, Ryu, Wheeler, Odorizzi, Gibson, Chacin, Wood, Mikolas, Hill, Hamels, Sabathia, and lotsa guys who could bounce back Hellickson, Cahill, Harvey, Perez, Teheran, Pomeranz, Porcello, Ross, etc.

Hopefully we'll need just one of those guys (Stasburg, Sale, Bumgarner or Cole) since we'll get Ohtani back, Canning or Suarez could be an option, then we'll have Skaggs, Heaney, Barria and whoever else rises to the occasion, possibly Sandoval, Pena improves on his pretty impressive 2018 campaign and guys like Trop, Ramirez and Peters in the mix as well. 

[JarsOfClay]

51 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You need to read more prospect rankings, because you’re wrong.  They have two really good prospects.   We have the same amount in the top 100.   Depending on who you believe our farm is ranked higher.  

According to MLB.com for comparisons sake:

            Houston                                                               Angels

Kyle Tucker OF #5 Prospect                         Jo Adell OF#15 Prospect

Forrest Whitley SP #8 Prospect                   Griffin Canning SP #72 Prospect

Houston also has Yordan Alvarez OF-#42 and Josh Jamaes SP-#95. The only other angel prospect is Brandon Marsh at #98.

Only Keith Law has the angels system ranked higher than Houston.  MLB, FanGraphs, BleecherReport has Houston ranked much higher than the Angels.

 

 

[JarsOfClay]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

I think that overview is so simplistic that it fails to account for pretty much everything.

1. Yes, the Astros were 26 games better, this is true. But those 26 games were the result of Verlander, Morton and Cole having career years and the presence of Keuchel and an unexpected tear from White. This also required an Ohtani injury, a Richards injury, a Skaggs injury, a Ramirez injury, a Middleton injury, a Cozart injury, Upton not hitting with RISP for the only time in his career and Kole Calhoun completely tanking. Everything went right for the Astros, everything went wrong for the Angels. The real difference between the two teams at optimum capacity is likely 10 games, not even close to 26.

2. In 2020, if Verlander abd Cole walk, and assuming Keuchel isn't returning, and the Angels get Ohtani back in the rotation, you're going to see a shift of power.

3. The Astros mainly have Whitley and Tucker coming in, unless you count James who already arrived. Whitley is the real deal, but also already has a PED suspension under his belt, and Tucker's numbers are inflated by the PCL and for all that talent, the Astros have still been shopping him around and have been reluctant to give him any sort of playing time. The Angels on the other hand have Adell and Canning arriving as the big two, but have a wave of supplementals arriving in the next two years which includes Luis Rengifo, Matt Thaiss, Michael Hermosillo, Jose Suarez, Pat Sandoval, Jake Jewell, Brandon Marsh and Jahmai Jones.

4. The Astros will need to spend some serious money to remain elite, while the Angels are about to free up 60 million over the next year or two.

I think the Angels are going to start winning 90+ games a year beginning in 2020, and I'm not alone in this belief. After this next wave of prospects, we've got another one coming in right after that which includes Chris Rodriguez, Jose Soriano, Aaron Hernandez, Kyle Bradish, Luis Madero, Kevin Maitan, Jordyn Adams, Jeremiah Jackson, D'Shawn Knowles and Trent Deveaux.

The Angels haven't had this much talent in the minors in 20 years, and we saw the run they went on between 2002 and 2009. That's what's about to go down. 2020-2030 is going to be pretty fun for fans of this team.

It was intended to be simplistic. The point I was trying to make was the Houston is loaded with MLB talent and loaded with prospect talent. I don't see how the angels can just overtake them that easy in 1 year. They are not like the 2002 Mariners who had an old team. Houston still has a young core. Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Springer, Cole are all under 30.

As for #1 - Those were not career years. They are all excellent pitchers. And the injuries are part of the game. The problem with the angels the last few years is they have no depth at the major or minor league level to deal with injuries. If one top player or SP goes on the DL this year. This team is done for the year.

#2 - It's likely they retain at least 1 of them, and Ohtani is a 2 way player. He wont be pitching every 5 days so he'll have less of an impact in the rotation.

#3 - Whitley and Tucker are both rated in the top 10. I think both Adell and Canning will be good, but those prospects you listed at the bottom are nothing special. Thaiss still has no power, Hermosillo's ceiling is a 4th OF at best. I have little knowledge of the other ones.

#4 - Where are you getting the 60 million from? I hope you don't think Pujols is retiring next year because he's not.

Anything can happen when it comes to prospects even the highest ones don't always pan out, but a lot has to go right for the angels to top Houston by 20-21. 

[WeatherWonk]

6 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Next year Houston will probably lose Verlander and Cole to FA, and Ohtani has a chance at being the next big thing in pitching. Next year has the makings of a very good year for the Angels with Adell in RF, and Canning joining Ohtani in the rotation.

Just would really like to make the playoffs this season and take the division next year and extend Trout to make him an Angel for life.

I never realized that Houston is banned from signing extensions for some of their best players, while the Angels are a lock to sign Trout to an extension. Oh yeah, and a pitcher coming off TJ surgery is the "next big thing" the following year. 

Thankfully, I read AW to learn all this.

As someone wise once said, if you're not the lead dog...........

We will not be the lead dog even in 2020.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

It was intended to be simplistic. The point I was trying to make was the Houston is loaded with MLB talent and loaded with prospect talent. I don't see how the angels can just overtake them that easy in 1 year. They are not like the 2002 Mariners who had an old team. Houston still has a young core. Altuve, Bregman, Correa, Springer, Cole are all under 30.

As for #1 - Those were not career years. They are all excellent pitchers. And the injuries are part of the game. The problem with the angels the last few years is they have no depth at the major or minor league level to deal with injuries. If one top player or SP goes on the DL this year. This team is done for the year.

#2 - It's likely they retain at least 1 of them, and Ohtani is a 2 way player. He wont be pitching every 5 days so he'll have less of an impact in the rotation.

#3 - Whitley and Tucker are both rated in the top 10. I think both Adell and Canning will be good, but those prospects you listed at the bottom are nothing special. Thaiss still has no power, Hermosillo's ceiling is a 4th OF at best. I have little knowledge of the other ones.

#4 - Where are you getting the 60 million from? I hope you don't think Pujols is retiring next year because he's not.

Anything can happen when it comes to prospects even the highest ones don't always pan out, but a lot has to go right for the angels to top Houston by 20-21. 

Except they aren’t loaded with minor league talent, no more so than we are. 

[floplag]

 

Just now, Stradling said:

Except they aren’t loaded with minor league talent, no more so than we are. 

They also arent the ones playing catch up, we are.  

[tdawg87]

Man some of you guys gotta at least try some positivity once in a while. It feels pretty good and it costs you nothing.

[floplag]

4 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

Do you think their signing late will effect the Angels in any way? 

Not in the slightest

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

 

They also arent the ones playing catch up, we are.  

You are the first one to talk about the higher you draft the better chance you have of getting better players in the first and second rounds.   This is year four of us drafting higher and getting better talent.  

[Docwaukee]

to me it's less about Houston getting weaker and more about the Angels getting stronger.  

I do think it's going to be tough for Houston to sustain 100 win seasons for the foreseeable future and they'll drop back to the point where we'll be in a position to start competing for the division when you include prospects and FA signings.  

We can start being a 90+ win team next year and vie for the division but most likely it will be starting in 2021 or maybe even 2022.  

We got a small taste of what it was like to have a reasonably healthy pitching staff last year through Jun 9th when we went 37-28.  That likely wouldn't have gotten us to the playoffs last year but I think that's the type of baseball this team is capable should key components stay off the IL.  

Maybe we continue to be unlucky in regards to injury and that would suck.  Not much you can do if that happens.  

My point is that we'll at least be in the conversation again soon for a division title as long as we stay on the current path.  It might end up a dogfight with Houston and even Oakland on a yearly basis, but I think we'll win our fair share very soon.