A certain freshman congresswoman

[Lou]

not one person I know making more than $150,000/yr inherited it. 

 

[Rico]

11 hours ago, Stradling said:

I am far from rich, but I do make a good living.  I pay in federal taxes a ton each year.  Then when I do my taxes, it is never enough, so I pay more taxes.  This is with filing single and 0, while being married.  This is with having a large mortgage on a nice home.  This is with donating upwards to $20k a year to charity, maxing out my 401k and putting extra money into my NQD.  Hell I even pay a pretty big amount each month in alimony, which is actually my best write off.   I have never once, not once in my life thought, “well my tax dollars are being well spent”.  Never.  Not a single Facking time.  So no, I don’t agree with the Uber rich being taxed more.  Start by taxing the 50% that aren’t currently paying much if any income tax.  

That is counter productive.  The goal is to have these low income workers have more spending power.  Because that is what really creates jobs.  When these low income workers are able to consume more they are able to visit in-n-out more often.

[Lou]

rich people spend a shitload of money 

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

not one person I know making more than $150,000/yr inherited it. 

 

Completely different scale man.  150k is a salary or a nice small business.  We aren’t talking about the same people. 

[Rico]

4 minutes ago, Lou said:

not one person I know making more than $150,000/yr inherited it. 

 

150k is nowhere near 10 million.

[UndertheHalo]

38 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Usage fees, sales tax are completely different animals.  I pay plenty in taxes and I really wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if the government was even somewhat responsible with the money.  Why anyone would be happy with a return of pennies on the dollar I have zero clue.

So when it boils down to it.  Why bother with any government at all ? Why don’t we just go back to fiefdoms.  That’s the logical end point here.  

You want to call it theft.  Fine.  It’s easy enough to me to paint up the hyper wealthy and mega corporations as thieves. 

[Lou]

flop's comment was aimed at Strad, not those making $10M. 

keep up 

[UndertheHalo]

What happens when government is tiny and weak is that the rich and powerful step in and act as governments themselves.  It’s anarchy.  This happens in history. Over and over and over and over.  

 

[Blarg]

8 hours ago, Lou said:

I like jessecrall.  

so, jesse, how is/was your relationship with your father?

He doesn't like YK at all.

Heredity?

[Lou]

19 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

What happens when government is tiny and weak is that the rich and powerful step in and act as governments themselves.  It’s anarchy.  This happens in history. Over and over and over and over.  

 

and in the US, this will never happen.

[Adam]

21 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So when it boils down to it.  Why bother with any government at all ?

AMEN BROTHER!

[mtangelsfan]

30 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So when it boils down to it.  Why bother with any government at all ? Why don’t we just go back to fiefdoms.  That’s the logical end point here.  

You want to call it theft.  Fine.  It’s easy enough to me to paint up the hyper wealthy and mega corporations as thieves. 

Actually, if you want to talk about serfs and fiefdoms then that is the socialist way.  The more the government takes the more we become serfs.  The more the government controls property and what you can and can't do, the more property the government amasses the more we become a fiefdom.  

[mtangelsfan]

32 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So when it boils down to it.  Why bother with any government at all ? Why don’t we just go back to fiefdoms.  That’s the logical end point here.  

You want to call it theft.  Fine.  It’s easy enough to me to paint up the hyper wealthy and mega corporations as thieves. 

It is also funny to me that most making this argument do not address the second part of my post, i.e. the wasteful government and how they have not earned the right to take more.

[Tank]

15 hours ago, Blarg said:

That's really messing with my fishing plans. 

and my golfing plans.

[Stradling]

57 minutes ago, floplag said:

No offense, but that is not the description of someone who isnt rich, youre view is skewed, i would wager your doing better than 99% of the people on this board if you can afford to donate 20K a year.  Id hate to think about what you would actually consider rich if you dont think you are based on the above.  

I do agree though that taxation needs to be fair and balanced.  How much a person makes isnt the issue, its how much each of us is expected to pay in taxes.  Flat tax makes more sense to me than literally any other proposal ive read, its fair, it makes sense.  The reason the uber rich get targeted is that it would have the largest impact. Taxing minimum wage folks more doesnt exactly gain much in terms of spendable capital but that also shouldnt remove them from the responsibility.  Not to mention the wealthy tend to be the ones that are taking advantage of the loopholes to get our of paying their fair share. 

This isnt always the case, most of the wealthy i know made it the old fashioned way, inheritance.  Now many are also self made but those with the silly bank account values had a really nice head start from the family much more often than founding a monster start up.   Plus we all know its easy to make money if you have money.  The whole "go out and earn it" line is a complete crock and is frankly dismissive of those who work their ass of to make other people rich.  

I know one truly wealthy person, she inherited it.  I know several millionaires, they earned it.  If you live in Ca you aren’t rich at $200-300k. Far from it.  

Don’t get me wrong people in that income bracket do well, but FAR from rich.  Especially after taxes.  It basically means you can donate some monies, take a family vacation, not live paycheck to paycheck and put money into your retirement.   

 

[jessecrall]

11 hours ago, Lou said:

I like jessecrall.  

so, jesse, how is/was your relationship with your father?

Not something I can get into using my real name but if you've seen ZODIAC, he was basically Robert Downey Jr. toward the tail end of that. 

[UndertheHalo]

2 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Actually, if you want to talk about serfs and fiefdoms then that is the socialist way.  The more the government takes the more we become serfs.  The more the government controls property and what you can and can't do, the more property the government amasses the more we become a fiefdom.  

There’s a bunch of paths to making serfs out of us.  But in this country the path goes by allowing the elite to continue to amass power and wealth.  Which they are.  At a staggering rate.  Not by progressive tax policy and social safety net programs like single payer healthcare.  

And what do you want me to say about your complaint about government inefficiencies ? Sorry, I didn’t realize how the private sector is so perfectly efficient MT.  The government wastes money, that should be addressed and fixed.   But this idea that it’s not a necessary instrument to broadly protect people is something that I disagree with. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

There’s a bunch of paths to making serfs out of us.  But in this country the path goes by allowing the elite to continue to amass power and wealth.  Which they are.  At a staggering rate.  Not by progressive tax policy and social safety net programs like single payer healthcare.  

And what do you want me to say about your complaint about government inefficiencies ? Sorry, I didn’t realize how the private sector is so perfectly efficient MT.  The government wastes money, that should be addressed and fixed.   But this idea that it’s not a necessary instrument to broadly protect people is something that I disagree with. 

I’m better at spending my money to help others than the government is.  The private sector may not be perfectly efficient, but to pretend it isn’t more efficient than the government is silly.  

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I know one truly wealthy person, she inherited it.  I know several millionaires, they earned it.  If you live in Ca you aren’t rich at $200-300k. Far from it.  

Don’t get me wrong people in that income bracket do well, but FAR from rich.  Especially after taxes.  It basically means you can donate some monies, take a family vacation, not live paycheck to paycheck and put money into your retirement.   

 

I should probably say she inherited the first billion, and after that she has amassed quite a few other billion because she is good at what she does and has taken her grandparents vision and took it to the next level and she did it her own way.  

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’m better at spending my money to help others than the government is.  The private sector may not be perfectly efficient, but to pretend it isn’t more efficient than the government is silly.  

We’re talking about different things Strad.  There’s no comparison between upper middle class people and the hyper wealthy.  

And again, I’m not saying that changing the way we tax is a silver bullet.  The country is facing complex problems that have many different aspects.  

[mtangelsfan]

17 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

There’s a bunch of paths to making serfs out of us.  But in this country the path goes by allowing the elite to continue to amass power and wealth.  Which they are.  At a staggering rate.  Not by progressive tax policy and social safety net programs like single payer healthcare.  

And what do you want me to say about your complaint about government inefficiencies ? Sorry, I didn’t realize how the private sector is so perfectly efficient MT.  The government wastes money, that should be addressed and fixed.   But this idea that it’s not a necessary instrument to broadly protect people is something that I disagree with. 

This has been a solid discussion, lets not ruin with hyperbole and arguing things I never said.  The private sector is much more efficient overall and I don't think that is arguable.  I never argued they were perfect.  

Again, do you believe that the government has spent the money they have in great way?  Is it all of the sudden going to get way more efficient because of healthcare or free college?

[m0nkey]

4 pages in, but has anyone explained why people making more money should have to pay a % than other people? Because they're rich?

[yk9001]

6 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

4 pages in, but has anyone explained why people making more money should have to pay a % than other people? Because they're rich?

Because they can.  And we already do. You do understand the marginal tax rate, correct?  A person who makes $50,001 pays a lower tax rate on that $1 than a person who makes $100,001 pays on that last dollar.  And so on.

https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/12/13/your-guide-to-tax-brackets-in-2018.aspx

Marginal Tax Rate	Taxable Income Range	If Your Income Falls Within This Range, Your Income Tax Is..
10%	$0-$9,525	10% of your taxable income
12%	$9,525-$38,700	$952.50 + 12% of the amount over $9,525
22%	$38,700-$82,500	$4,453.50 + 22% of the amount over $38,700
24%	$82,500-$157,500	$14,089.50 + 24% of the amount over $82,500
32%	$157,500-$200,000	$32,089.50 + 32% of the amount over $157,500
35%	$200,000-$500,000	$45,689.50 + 35% of the amount over $200,000
37%	Over $500,000	$150,689.50 + 37% of the amount over $500,000

[Lou]

"because they can" is the biggest crock of shit reason ever. 

[Schildog]

2 hours ago, m0nkey said:

4 pages in, but has anyone explained why people making more money should have to pay a % than other people? Because they're rich?

What's the flat tax rate you're proposing?