2020 Democratic Field

[tdawg87]

7 hours ago, angelinkc said:

Yes, I am ok with this. If your are capable of working and don't, you are a bum.  No society or business can survive with loads of people who consume more than they produce. This is the very reason abortion and eugenics are so popular with socialist. They no damn well it won't work so they need a way to control the population. Liberals are perfectly ok with 1 million babies a year being murdered but shit their pants over the 28k dying every year without health insurance.  I prefer everyone be born and give everyone the chance to compete.  Life has winners and losers so does a free society. Hard work and the Grace of God is the only way to achieve. Equal hard work doesn't always have equal results financially. Equal misery can be achieved in socialist communist nations. They have quite the track record with that. 

I believe the very country you are in has it. Ask them how is is working out? Most poor mexicans are under universal care. China's system is looking pretty awesome currently. I used the UK to at least be fair. Also in fairness, the Canadians and Europeans do better than poor countries but we have financed their defense for the last 70 years. They also suck compared to our healthcare. 

 

7 hours ago, angelinkc said:

Amazed how an alleged ignorant old rich guy is holding so many internet intellectuals down. Currently, unemployment is pretty low. If you are struggling, maybe put down the keyboard and get a first or second job.

Edited March 1, 2020 by tdawg87

[tdawg87]

11 hours ago, Blarg said:

Bernie revealed his "free Healthcare" would cost about $50 trillion over the next decade. So that's about $5 trillion per year financed by about 155 million people in the US that are employed. 

Let's see if you libs can do the math. 

It's actually about 197 million who are employed. Also, those figures include what is already being spent on healthcare, which is about 3.6 trillion in 2019 (https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/us-healthcare-spending-estimated-to-grow-to-36t-this-year/555658/). Over the next 10 years, the expected cost of health spending by Americans is about $57 trillion. (https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Statistics-Trends-and-Reports/NationalHealthExpendData/NationalHealthAccountsProjected)

By 2021, the total taxes being paid by Americans is expected to be 3.8 trillion (https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-tax-revenue-3305762). Over the next 10 years, Americans are expected to pay roughly $30 trillion. 

Bernie is proposing $47 trillion over the next 10 years. So that's actually about 17 trillion added over the next 10 blah blah blah. 

Tl;dr Everyone pays a little more in taxes but nothing for health insurance, ultimately saving money.

It is not a perfect system by any means, and I don't fully support it. But there you go.

[tdawg87]

Just for shits and giggles, here's a calculation of the median federal income taxes paid yearly by the 197 million employed Americans:

197 million x $8,000 (rough estimate, it's probably more) = 1.58 trillion per year. 

Bernie's tax plan to pay for Medicare: 1.7 trillion.

Lol

 

[Jason]

https://www.tmz.com/2020/02/29/bernie-sanders-boards-wrong-gulfstream-private-jet-campaign/
meh, he gets a pass on this one. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve done this myself 

[St1ck]

9 hours ago, Tank said:

Since you’re new, you probably should know that st1ckboy/st1ckipedia lives in my basement and rifles through my trash cans two or three times a week for sustenance. I occasionally leave him some of our leftovers to cheer him up a bit. He doesn’t like my vegetarian non-alcoholic diet, but free is free. He hangs out during the day at CVS collecting cans and bottles to recycle. We like st1ck and don’t push too hard against him.

I shit in your sink when you aren't home.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, st1ckboy said:

I shit in your sink when you aren't home.

sh1tboy?

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/politics/9325898/flavor-flav-blasts-bernie-sanders-la-rally-there-is-no-public-enemy-without-flavor-flav

Fool, you tarnished your legacy with Stallone’s sloppy seconds on a reality TV show and got roasted on Comedy Central.  Sit this one out and stop watching channel zero, boi!

 

[fan_since79]

3 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Just for shits and giggles, here's a calculation of the median federal income taxes paid yearly by the 197 million employed Americans:

197 million x $8,000 (rough estimate, it's probably more) = 1.58 trillion per year. 

Bernie's tax plan to pay for Medicare: 1.7 trillion.

Lol

 

Right, but you would have zero insurance policy premiums and no deductibles or co-payments under his plan. Higher health taxes might offset the previous premiums etc??

I was paying $791/month on my Obamacare HMO plan until I finally reached Medicare age. Now I pay $147 for Part B and have a zero-premium Medicare Advantage plan to cover most of my co-payments.

His plan will be a substantial increase in cost especially for younger people because their Obamacare premiums are generally affordable, unless there's a tiered tax plan geared to a person's age. Younger pay less, older pay more. But if they try to blend the present Medicare system into this and jack up the elderly's taxes, there will probably be hell to pay and the thing would be DOA in the Congress no matter which party is running things.

It's one thing for Bernie to spout all this socialist crap, another thing entirely to get it passed into law. Congress critters are above all concerned with one thing, not losing reelection. When a senior's cost jumps from $147/mo to $500 or more under the Medicare-for-all tax (just speculating here on the amount) the political cost will be unbearable.

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Right, but you would have zero insurance policy premiums and no deductibles or co-payments under his plan. Higher health taxes might offset the previous premiums etc??

I was paying $791/month on my Obamacare HMO plan until I finally reached Medicare age. Now I pay $147 for Part B and have a zero-premium Medicare Advantage plan to cover most of my co-payments.

His plan will be a substantial increase in cost especially for younger people because their Obamacare premiums are generally affordable, unless there's a tiered tax plan geared to a person's age. Younger pay less, older pay more. But if they try to blend the present Medicare system into this and jack up the elderly's taxes, there will probably be hell to pay and the thing would be DOA in the Congress no matter which party is running things.

It's one thing for Bernie to spout all this socialist crap, another thing entirely to get it passed into law. Congress critters are above all concerned with one thing, not losing reelection. When a senior's cost jumps from $147/mo to $500 or more under the Medicare-for-all tax (just speculating here on the amount) the political cost will be unbearable.

That's literally the exact opposite of what's going to happen. The higher health taxes won't offset the premiums at all, as I explained in my previous post. 

I'm trying to understand why you think you'd suddenly be paying over 3x more.

[tdawg87]

Basically, anyone who makes over $29,000 a year pays an extra 4% tax. So if you are in a certain tax bracket, you add 4%. I don't know how much you make and it's not any of my business. But let's just use a random figure, say $80,000. For single filers, that's in the 22% tax bracket. So you'd pay $4,543 plus 22% of the amount over $39,475. In this case, that's $40,525. 22% of $40,525 is $8915. $8915 plus $4,543 is $13,458. $13,458 x 4% = $538.00. $538/12 = 44.83. So that person is paying an extra $44.83 a month to pay nothing for medical expenses.

 

[mtangelsfan]

19 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Basically, anyone who makes over $29,000 a year pays an extra 4% tax. So if you are in a certain tax bracket, you add 4%. I don't know how much you make and it's not any of my business. But let's just use a random figure, say $80,000. For single filers, that's in the 22% tax bracket. So you'd pay $4,543 plus 22% of the amount over $39,475. In this case, that's $40,525. 22% of $40,525 is $8915. $8915 plus $4,543 is $13,458. $13,458 x 4% = $538.00. $538/12 = 44.83. So that person is paying an extra $44.83 a month to pay nothing for medical expenses.

 

Have you ever known any project, let alone a government project, that stayed at budget?

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Have you ever known any project, let alone a government project, that stayed at budget?

Have we ever had Medicare for all?

But I'll humor you. Let's say the tax rate doubles to 8%.

Using that same example, that person is now paying $89.72 extra a month. For free healthcare.

Edited March 1, 2020 by tdawg87

[tdawg87]

Let's take taxes out of it so we can make it worst case scenario.

$80,000 x 4% = 3200/12 = $267 a month. The lowest premium I can find under Obamacare is $320 a month, and I make a third of that income. I'm assuming someone making $80,000 is paying upwards of $500-$600 a month. That's just for single payer care. So you're cutting your payment in half.

[JarsOfClay]

35 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Have you ever known any project, let alone a government project, that stayed at budget?

Obamacare had a surplus.

[tdawg87]

As for Medicare, I don't have an answer. Bernie has said there will be no out of pocket payments or premiums or monthly bills. The only thing it would possibly impact are your taxes.

Again, I don't fully support this. It's too big to truly enact with the way things currently are. But Blarg asked the Libs to do the math so I did. One thing is for sure, if this were to actually be enacted exactly the way Bernie wants it, the negative impact on every single person on this forum will be minimal at worst. It all boils down to not wanting to pay any of your money so poor people can get free healthcare, even if those payments would have almost no impact on your lives or ultimately save you money.

Edited March 1, 2020 by tdawg87

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

Obamacare had a surplus.

Lol

[JarsOfClay]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

Lol

Literally took 2 seconds to debunk that claim. Have a wonderful day.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

As for Medicare, I don't have an answer. Bernie has said there will be no out of pocket payments or premiums or monthly bills. The only thing it would possibly impact are your taxes.

Again, I don't fully support this. It's too big to truly enact with the way things currently are. But Blarg asked the Libs to do the math so I did. One thing is for sure, if this were to actually be enacted exactly the way Bernie wants it, the negative impact on every single person on this forum will be minimal at worst. It all boils down to not wanting to pay any of your money so poor people can get free healthcare, even if those payments would have almost no impact on your lives.

That would be great if things went perfectly but we all know it wouldn’t be free,.  There are always unintended consequences and costs.  I think we have invited the government into our lives so much I am resigned to believe something like this will happen.  I am fine paying a little more so that folks like yourself can be covered.  I don’t need the government to be involved in another part of my life

[gotbeer]

17 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Let's take taxes out of it so we can make it worst case scenario.

$80,000 x 4% = 3200/12 = $267 a month. The lowest premium I can find under Obamacare is $320 a month, and I make a third of that income. I'm assuming someone making $80,000 is paying upwards of $500-$600 a month. That's just for single payer care. So you're cutting your payment in half.

Here is the thing.  Just because it's medicare for all, doesn't mean you can go to any doctor.  Remember Obamacare and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?  And how a lot of doctors just stopped taking Obamacare plans.  Reason is, they paid shit as reimbursement.  Heck, most doctors don't take the current medicare because they've been cutting what they pay out.  Well, under the new single payer system, they are going to cut reimbursements even more.  So you will end up with a higher demand for doctors since everyone will have it.  But more doctors will go to the profitable private insurance sector, where they will actually not go broke.  

So financially, I think it will impact people more.  Because if you are making money, you are still going to go the private insurance route and still be forced to pay for care for all, but also a decent plan where it won't take 6 months to see a doctor.  

 

[tdawg87]

26 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

That would be great if things went perfectly but we all know it wouldn’t be free,.  There are always unintended consequences and costs.  I think we have invited the government into our lives so much I am resigned to believe something like this will happen.  I am fine paying a little more so that folks like yourself can be covered.  I don’t need the government to be involved in another part of my life

I appreciate that. Honestly though, I don't want anyone to have to pay more, for me. I know that's essentially how this type of thing works but I would hope someday it would get to the point where I'm happy to pay more. 

I give "rich white dudes" shit on here but I still don't want anyone's money or handouts. I can and do work.

[tdawg87]

18 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

Here is the thing.  Just because it's medicare for all, doesn't mean you can go to any doctor.  Remember Obamacare and if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor?  And how a lot of doctors just stopped taking Obamacare plans.  Reason is, they paid shit as reimbursement.  Heck, most doctors don't take the current medicare because they've been cutting what they pay out.  Well, under the new single payer system, they are going to cut reimbursements even more.  So you will end up with a higher demand for doctors since everyone will have it.  But more doctors will go to the profitable private insurance sector, where they will actually not go broke.  

So financially, I think it will impact people more.  Because if you are making money, you are still going to go the private insurance route and still be forced to pay for care for all, but also a decent plan where it won't take 6 months to see a doctor.  

 

This is a good point. I'm not sure if there's a plan to help this but there probably isn't. Ultimately "Medicare For All" is a catch term.

[Lou]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/01/18/how-the-obama-administration-raided-the-treasury-to-pay-off-insurers/

[mtangelsfan]

9 minutes ago, Lou said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2016/01/18/how-the-obama-administration-raided-the-treasury-to-pay-off-insurers/

Jars?

[Blarg]

Jars of Crap lives in an alternate world where nothing we see hapening happens in his universe.

[Angelsjunky]

Medicare for all saves 60,000  lives a year.

But, but, but....taxes!