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25 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

 

The irony is that the beloved of the white independents, Andrew Yang, has repeated pointed out that the capitalism-socialism dichotomy is false outdated. Too many Americans still don't get this.

What does “false outdated” mean?

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Yeah there are a lot of creeps out there. Scary part is you just never know where they hang out. Be it Iowa or...  

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I know I shouldn't be but I'm still surprised that some people seem to think the government will do it better.  Capitalism isn't perfect and yes there needs to be a balance between government, businesses and social programs among other things.  That said as we've seen the federal government grow even just in our lifetimes they've only become more inefficient, subject to fraud/abuse and scarier while running up 20T+ in debt the last 4 decades.   I don't see how giving them more power or control is going to fix any of that.  I realize the status quo isn't the answer to some either but I don't want to pay even more in taxes, have fewer choices when it comes to anything they control and see less return for what I do pay to fund what some politicians are promising.  If they want to cut from the military or wherever to fund it by all means but that hasn't been a talking point I've heard so far.  

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1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I know I shouldn't be but I'm still surprised that some people seem to think the government will do it better.  Capitalism isn't perfect and yes there needs to be a balance between government, businesses and social programs among other things.  That said as we've seen the federal government grow even just in our lifetimes they've only become more inefficient, subject to fraud/abuse and scarier while running up 20T+ in debt the last 4 decades.   I don't see how giving them more power or control is going to fix any of that.  I realize the status quo isn't the answer to some either but I don't want to pay even more in taxes, have fewer choices when it comes to anything they control and see less return for what I do pay to fund what some politicians are promising.  If they want to cut from the military or wherever to fund it by all means but that hasn't been a talking point I've heard so far.  

You need to be more specific, what control are we giving them? Health care? So the current system where we pay twice as much for health care, 10 times for prescription drugs while getting less in return and 30k Americans die a year is a good system to you? You want billionaires who profit off the death of tens of thousands of Americans in charge instead?

I don't mind giving government control as long as it's in the right hands. Of course I don't want Bush or Trump in charge of government, but I definitely trust Bernie Sanders with government.

It's not government that's the problem, it's just that the very dumb people of America keep making bad decisions with their vote, and the smart ones are stuck with their decision. We are 20T in debt because the Republican idiots keep electing Republicans who claim they are for less government and then run up the debt to levels that my children's children will suffer for. They keep falling for the stupid lie because they watch fox news and dont have the ability to think for themselves. It's Republicans. the part of fiscal responsibility that got us here, not socialism. Stop watching fox news and think for yourself.

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2 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

You need to be more specific, what control are we giving them? Health care? So the current system where we pay twice as much for health care, 10 times for prescription drugs while getting less in return and 30k Americans die a year is a good system to you? You want billionaires who profit off the death of tens of thousands of Americans in charge instead?

I don't mind giving government control as long as it's in the right hands. Of course I don't want Bush or Trump in charge of government, but I definitely trust Bernie Sanders with government.

It's not government that's the problem, it's just that the very dumb people of America keep making bad decisions with their vote, and the smart ones are stuck with their decision. We are 20T in debt because the Republican idiots keep electing Republicans who claim they are for less government and then run up the debt to levels that my children's children will suffer for. They keep falling for the stupid lie because they watch fox news and dont have the ability to think for themselves. It's Republicans. the part of fiscal responsibility that got us here, not socialism. Stop watching fox news and think for yourself.

Agreed. Republicans suck

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7 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

You need to be more specific, what control are we giving them? Health care? So the current system where we pay twice as much for health care, 10 times for prescription drugs while getting less in return and 30k Americans die a year is a good system to you? You want billionaires who profit off the death of tens of thousands of Americans in charge instead?

I don't mind giving government control as long as it's in the right hands. Of course I don't want Bush or Trump in charge of government, but I definitely trust Bernie Sanders with government.

It's not government that's the problem, it's just that the very dumb people of America keep making bad decisions with their vote, and the smart ones are stuck with their decision. We are 20T in debt because the Republican idiots keep electing Republicans who claim they are for less government and then run up the debt to levels that my children's children will suffer for. They keep falling for the stupid lie because they watch fox news and dont have the ability to think for themselves. It's Republicans. the part of fiscal responsibility that got us here, not socialism. Stop watching fox news and think for yourself.

Are we discounting the amount the debt went up under Obama? No criticism of any Dems at all?

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3 minutes ago, Jason said:

Are we discounting the amount the debt went up under Obama? No criticism of any Dems at all?

Obama's debt was mostly from the ARRA to help recover from Bush's horrible economic collapse, and extending Bush's tax cuts after he was pressured by Republicans to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy.

I don't know why you blame Obama for that.

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41 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

You need to be more specific, what control are we giving them? Health care? So the current system where we pay twice as much for health care, 10 times for prescription drugs while getting less in return and 30k Americans die a year is a good system to you? You want billionaires who profit off the death of tens of thousands of Americans in charge instead?

I don't mind giving government control as long as it's in the right hands. Of course I don't want Bush or Trump in charge of government, but I definitely trust Bernie Sanders with government.

It's not government that's the problem, it's just that the very dumb people of America keep making bad decisions with their vote, and the smart ones are stuck with their decision. We are 20T in debt because the Republican idiots keep electing Republicans who claim they are for less government and then run up the debt to levels that my children's children will suffer for. They keep falling for the stupid lie because they watch fox news and dont have the ability to think for themselves. It's Republicans. the part of fiscal responsibility that got us here, not socialism. Stop watching fox news and think for yourself.

It'll either be billionaires who run corporations or lifelong politicians who have become millionaires while "serving the public" neither of which will adhere to the same medical insurance or care that the rest of us get.  In the last two decades Medicare part D and the ACA were passed under both parties.  Medicare part D was supposed to save taxpayers money and instead the costs have ballooned in line with prescription drug costs.  The ACA was supposed to allow people to keep their doctors and reduce costs but it did neither, costs continue to rise and now the apparent solution from the party that pushed it on the public is to scrap it all together instead of taking what works from it and building on it.  

More power to you for trusting Sanders.  Personally I don't put much faith in people who have been a part of the system for decades and never really held a real job all the while becoming millionaires off the back of taxpayers.  Sanders says medicare for all would cost less than what we pay now but he also says has no idea what it will cost.  The only truthful thing he's said about medicare for all is that a lot of the middle class would pay more than they do now.  If he gets elected and is able to get something healthcare related pushed through that's great but if it's expected to be funded by new tax revenues and no cuts to the current budget long term we're just digging the hole deeper.  

Deficit spending has been a way of life for 4 decades now.  Originally it was intended to be used during wartime when the economy shifted or during recessions to spur growth.  It's beyond disingenuous to lay the blame on either side because presidents, senates and congresses under the control of both parties have allowed it to happen.  You say Obama doesn't deserve any blame for the debt and follow that up by saying he was pressured by republicans which is bullshit he just did what presidents and politicians alike before him have done for decades.  Tack on something else for ___ to get their vote, then something for ___ and so on and in the end we've got a bloated budget running in the red that most of the politicians will never have to deal with because when kicking the can down the road no longer works they'll all be dead.

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3 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I know I shouldn't be but I'm still surprised that some people seem to think the government will do it better.  Capitalism isn't perfect and yes there needs to be a balance between government, businesses and social programs among other things.  That said as we've seen the federal government grow even just in our lifetimes they've only become more inefficient, subject to fraud/abuse and scarier while running up 20T+ in debt the last 4 decades.   I don't see how giving them more power or control is going to fix any of that.  I realize the status quo isn't the answer to some either but I don't want to pay even more in taxes, have fewer choices when it comes to anything they control and see less return for what I do pay to fund what some politicians are promising.  If they want to cut from the military or wherever to fund it by all means but that hasn't been a talking point I've heard so far.  

I agree with all of this. However, the Republicans are just as interested in expanding the federal government as the Democrats are. 

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1 hour ago, JarsOfClay said:

Obama's debt was mostly from the ARRA to help recover from Bush's horrible economic collapse, and extending Bush's tax cuts after he was pressured by Republicans to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy.

I don't know why you blame Obama for that.

Talk about a terrible investment. The market can't even function without Fed intervention. The economy should have been allowed to reset but we didn't want to take our medicine. Now our kids and grandkids are fucked.

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Without a doubt.  The two parties are more alike than they are different and expanding the government means more power for them.  Both sides can talk a good game and get their base fired up with talking points that they don't actually follow but in the end they're both after the same thing and have had an equal hand in the path we're on.  

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