1961

[Dtwncbad]

Imagine it is the winter before 1961 and you own the Yankees.  You have Mickey Mantle.

Roger Maris is a free agent (I know FA didn't exist then, that's why I said imagine).

You can pass on Maris and your finances look a little better or you can pay Maris a "stupid" amount and have Mantle and Maris.

Had the Yankee owner been in that position, history would show that the  benefit of having the sheer spectacle of Mantle and Maris would exceed the cost.

Yes that team won over 100 games, but they did not win the WS.  Very few remember how many games they won or if they won the WS or not.

But they remember Mantle and Maris.  That is entrenched in baseball legend and lore, and the Yankeen franchise benefitted from it greatly.

Now imagine you are Arte Moreno in the winter heading into 2019 and you have Mike Trout (and are $30m under the luxury tax). . .

[jsnpritchett]

The Yankees owner already had Maris in the winter before 1961...Maris and Mantle finished 1st and 2nd in the MVP voting the year before.

Come up with a better example. 

[Dtwncbad]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

The Yankees owner already had Maris in the winter before 1961...Maris and Mantle finished 1st and 2nd in the MVP voting the year before.

Come up with a better example. 

I guess I should have started the hypothetical with the word "imagine".  . .

Edited January 18, 2019 by Dtwncbad

[Dtwncbad]

Moderator can take down this thread because the initial post here really properly belongs in the Trout/Harper thread.

[LAA Road Tripper]

23 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Yes that team won over 100 games, but they did not win the WS.  

Actually, they did. They beat Cincinnati 4 games to one and won the AL quite comfortably. But they did lose the World Series in both ‘60 and ‘62 if that matters.

[Inside Pitch]

27 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

The Yankees owner already had Maris in the winter before 1961...Maris and Mantle finished 1st and 2nd in the MVP voting the year before.

Come up with a better example. 

Good call..   Also, Maris made 18K that year....  MLB's biggest salary that year was 85K -- Willie Mays.    I'm all for paying Manny or Harper 21% of what Mike Trout will earn next season.   In 61 is was 32K and 35% of the top salary...

Where do we sign up? 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Jay]

32 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Imagine it is the winter before 1961 and you own the Yankees.

This is my car:

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Good call..   Also, Maris made 18K that year....  MLB's biggest salary that year was 85K -- Willie Mays.    I'm all for paying Manny or Harper 21% of what Mike Trout will earn next season.   In 61 is was 32K and 35% of the top salary...

Where do we sign up? 

I guess nobody understands an imagined premise, and can consider the actual point that you can argue that any amount of money to spend to have that Mantle/Maris duo would have been worth it.

How much would Boston pay in hindsight to make sure they had Manny/Ortiz?  Probably almost an amount.

Trout/Harper very well could be the greatest duo in baseball history.

 

[Hubs]

Harper would be a great addition to this team, even at an AAV of $35. They likely could squeeze it under the cap, as well, if they moved Calhoun and most of his salary.

But the addition of Harper would also mean Jo Adell has no position, and that they likely couldn't pursue Gerritt Cole or Nolan Arrenado next year.

 

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I guess nobody understands an imagined premise, and can consider the actual point that you can argue that any amount of money to spend to have that Mantle/Maris duo would have been worth it.

How much would Boston pay in hindsight to make sure they had Manny/Ortiz?  Probably almost an amount.

Trout/Harper very well could be the greatest duo in baseball history.

 

Maris and Mantle were two of the top 5 if not the top 2 players in baseball those two years.  then the next 7 years for Maris 28-33 seasons he averaged 2.5 WAR per year and was hurt a ton.  

First off, Harper isn't one of the top 5 players in baseball.  When did he become legendary?  

2nd, the rest of Maris career speaks to the reality of the situation and the potential financial windfall you'd have to deal with.  

and merely so people would remember that the Angels once had Trout and Harper in the same lineup?  

I think I'd rather spin yarns to my grand kids about the time that the Angels had Trout who led them to back to back world series titles.  

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Trout and Betts would be something...

[Inside Pitch]

31 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I guess nobody understands an imagined premise, and can consider the actual point that you can argue that any amount of money to spend to have that Mantle/Maris duo would have been worth it.

Did you happen to notice I responded to someone else's comment??   

But whatever .... you got me... It's totally a case of my lacking imagination, nevermind that I was trying to imagine a world where the Angels would be able get so much out of such a nominal investment. 

Again, sign me up for the make believe.... Reality is way too expensive.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2019 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Trout and Betts would be something...

I'd be cool imagining this.   

[Blarg]

1961 Autry paid $2.5 million for the franchise rights and the Angels plucked Eli Grba from the Yankees in the expansion draft. 

Maris wasn't available being on the protected list having been traded to the Yankees in... 1960. He was never a free agent. 

[Rico]

26 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

First off, Harper isn't one of the top 5 players in baseball.  When did he become legendary?  

 

He is 26, already has an MVP season under his belt, and I imagine would greatly benefit from hitting in front of Trout.

[beatlesrule]

Are you also imagining that Moreno actually wants to win a World Series and would deviate that far from his budget?

[Dtwncbad]

What I imagine is the Angels in a postseason against the Yankees or Red Sox playing in those yards and Harper circling the bases for the Angels, after another 460 bomb, with a smug look on his face pissing off Yankee and Red Sox fans.

Eff you Yankees and Red Sox!

[Docwaukee]

15 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

What I imagine is the Angels in a postseason against the Yankees or Red Sox playing in those yards and Trout circling the bases for the Angels, after another 460 bomb, with a smile on his face pissing off Yankee and Red Sox fans.

Eff you Yankees and Red Sox!

fixed

[T.G.]

36 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

What I imagine is the Angels in a postseason against the Yankees or Red Sox playing in those yards and Harper circling the bases for the Angels, after another 460 bomb, with a smug look on his face pissing off Yankee and Red Sox fans.

Eff you Yankees and Red Sox!

Now that's something I'd like to imagine...

 

 

 

[greginpsca]

Apples & oranges.

[Dtwncbad]

36 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

fixed

I get your point but my context is this:

Trout homers and instead of Harper hitting one as a hired gun Yankee to offset Trout's homer, his homer is for the Angels in addition to Trout's.

[Blarg]

The Yankees have shown no interest in Harper. 

[Rico]

4 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I get your point but my context is this:

Trout homers and instead of Harper hitting one as a hired gun Yankee to offset Trout's homer, his homer is for the Angels in addition to Trout's.

Or he is on base and Trout's homer is a two run bomb. 

[Second Base]

I'd rather win with a collection of good-not-great players, than lose with the GOAT. That's what the Angel's have done. Not a single player from the 2002 squad was qualified to hold Mike Trout's jock. And yet they won.

This is a team sport folks. The Angels already have the three most interesting players in baseball. Mike Trout, the best. Shohei Ohtani, the only. And Andrelton Simmons, the glove. But they need a series of GOOD regulars to surround them with.  Calhoun, Cozart and Pujols aren't it. But the way some of these talented kids in AA and AAA play, they can be.

And that's the beauty of this game and this situation the Angels find themselves in. Those prospects dont have to be stars. They could simply be decent and the Angel's could be a very strong team. 

[Lou]

48 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Not a single player from the 2002 squad was qualified to hold Mike Trout's jock.

I guess no team that wants to win will want him then.