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Why didn't the Angels go after Harper/Machado.


Sign Machado or Harper?  

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  1. 1. Should we make a move and sign a 26 year old entering their prime with a premier bat?



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I read a great article that talks about why the Angels never went after Harper or Machado.

You can read it HERE

The end states that we could have traded Calhoun and Upton to clear more room to afford one of them and still afford Trout. Not to mention Pujols' contract expires decently soon.

I also do believe that the owners are too money happy and care more about running their team as a business first instead of a competitive team built to win. Just thought I'd share with everyone. Write down how you feel about this viewpoint. 

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Calhoun's value is rock-bottom and Upton has a no trade clause. I think it makes a lot more sense to play out 2019 with the expectation (and hope) that Adell can take over in right, Marsh will push Upton to 1st if he's ready in a couple of years and if he isn't, Knowles or Adams should be by the time Upton's deal is done. And if you extend Trout at some point in the next 11 months, you can then fill in blanks with, say, Arenado or Cole depending on how the farm develops. 

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We wouldnt need to trade anyone as either Upton or Calhoun could slot into 1B post Albert to make room for Adell when that time comes which isnt supposed to be till 20 or 21, certainly a non issue in 19 and i still believe 19 will be Alberts last year and he will retire at the end of it. 
As for the reasons im pretty much done discussing that topic here.

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Did you write this article?

Upton makes $21M average for four more seasons, and is likely to do 3-5 WAR seasons for the majority of that time. In the next 4 years, we'd likely get 25-28 WAR total out of either Harper or Machado. So while it's an improvement, it's not a significant one. Especially Harper, who is coming off a 1.3 WAR season in 2018 and a 4.7 WAR season in 2017 (and 1.5 in 2016). His only truly elite season was in 2015, when he posted 10 WAR.

Machado has had three great seasons in the last 4, at 5.7 WAR in 2018, 3.4 in 2017, and then two truly elite years at 6.9 and 7.1 in 2016 and 2015.

Hopefully both of these guys do well in free agency dollars wise, but adding one of them would not likely have pushed the Angels over the salary tax threshold, but it would've been close at 31.5 M. If they could find a taker for Calhoun, that would probably be the difference in 2019.

But Jo Adell should be here in 2019 or 2020, and if he does a Juan Soto / Ronald Acuna impression, and puts up a 3.0 WAR rookie season, that value is a much better add, as he's paid 555k.

And he plays the same position as Harper.

Adding Machado wouldn't impact Adell position wise, but it would affect the amount of money the Angels have to throw at a front line starter in 2020 or 2021.

That ultimately is why they don't add these two guys. For the past few seasons, the amount of money dedicated to pitching was very low.

For 2019, at $164 or so million in payroll, only 33.5 +5 @ 555k or 36.275M is allocated to the pitching staff.

In 2018, the $167 or so million in payroll, only 30M or so was allocated.

In 2017, it was $42 million of $166.

Only in 2016, prior to Eppler, was the portion of payroll allocated higher, at $71M of $165. And $41M of that was to two players, Weaver and Wilson.

 

 

 

 

 

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Eppler is on a solid course, and has shown that unlike Dumbpoto he won't trade the whole farm away, and also unlike Stoneman he isn't afraid to make a trade involving prospects (and Aybar) for a generational SS with 5 years of club control.

There will be room for Trout, Adell, Marsh, and Upton by 2020.   Upton can then move to 1B, after Pujols retires a year from now.

The Halos time to be perennial contenders isn't that far off.   Stay the course for another season (still 2nd WC contenders), and then if needed Cole or Arenado is there to sign a year from now. 

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1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Did you write this article?

Upton makes $21M average for four more seasons, and is likely to do 3-5 WAR seasons for the majority of that time. In the next 4 years, we'd likely get 25-28 WAR total out of either Harper or Machado. So while it's an improvement, it's not a significant one. Especially Harper, who is coming off a 1.3 WAR season in 2018 and a 4.7 WAR season in 2017 (and 1.5 in 2016). His only truly elite season was in 2015, when he posted 10 WAR.

Machado has had three great seasons in the last 4, at 5.7 WAR in 2018, 3.4 in 2017, and then two truly elite years at 6.9 and 7.1 in 2016 and 2015.

Hopefully both of these guys do well in free agency dollars wise, but adding one of them would not likely have pushed the Angels over the salary tax threshold, but it would've been close at 31.5 M. If they could find a taker for Calhoun, that would probably be the difference in 2019.

But Jo Adell should be here in 2019 or 2020, and if he does a Juan Soto / Ronald Acuna impression, and puts up a 3.0 WAR rookie season, that value is a much better add, as he's paid 555k.

And he plays the same position as Harper.

Adding Machado wouldn't impact Adell position wise, but it would affect the amount of money the Angels have to throw at a front line starter in 2020 or 2021.

That ultimately is why they don't add these two guys. For the past few seasons, the amount of money dedicated to pitching was very low.

For 2019, at $164 or so million in payroll, only 33.5 +5 @ 555k or 36.275M is allocated to the pitching staff.

In 2018, the $167 or so million in payroll, only 30M or so was allocated.

In 2017, it was $42 million of $166.

Only in 2016, prior to Eppler, was the portion of payroll allocated higher, at $71M of $165. And $41M of that was to two players, Weaver and Wilson.

 

 

 

 

 

No I didn't. Just thought it was an interesting opinion and figured I'd share.

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2 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

No I didn't. Just thought it was an interesting opinion and figured I'd share.

I couldn't disagree with your opinion (and the opinion shared by the author of this piece) more strongly, that's why I asked.

This article reads like a child unhappy with not getting a new toy.

And blames the owners for not bumping payroll into the stratosphere to satisfy fans wants and needs. Even though free agency has been shown to be the worst way to build a team.

 

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it's not a great article. it's an amateur piece written poorly. none of his suggestions add up into a cohesive timeline, then he summarizes his article with a paragraph that should be about another article entirely, milb and a potential strike. tell me, what does the last paragraph have to do with anything that came before it.

if i was his teacher? D+.

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that was a horrible article.  

let's take a trip back to the pre 2016 off season.  We desperately needed an OFer and there were plenty available.  Upton, Cespedes, Gordon and a young free agent by the name of Jason Heyward.  

To that point in Heyward's career he'd been far less flashy than guys like Machado and Harper but his production was stellar 

Heyward - 29.8 bWAR, 25.3 fWAR
Machado - 33.8 bWAR, 30.2 fWAR
Harper - 27.4 bWAR, 30.7 fWAR

We all know what has happened to Heyward since.  Now, I have no idea if either Machado or Harper go the way of Jason Heyward.  Probably not, but they certainly could.  Both have their red flags.  

A couple things to remember is that you're not getting Mike Trout yet their price isn't far off.  And more importantly, when did these two guys become the only two players that can help the Angels over the next few years?  Some are acting as if missing out on them would be missing out on investing in amazon 20 years ago.  

Just to send the point home

Andrelton Simmons over the same period as Harper and Machado.  
34.9 bWAR, 23.4 fWAR

This is not our last chance.  

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1 hour ago, ukyah said:

if i was his teacher? D+.

I struggled mightily to even get past the subheading:

"This offseason, while there was no one similar to Ohtani for the taking, but the Halos still refused to go chasing stars."

F. 

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10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

that was a horrible article.  

let's take a trip back to the pre 2016 off season.  We desperately needed an OFer and there were plenty available.  Upton, Cespedes, Gordon and a young free agent by the name of Jason Heyward.  

To that point in Heyward's career he'd been far less flashy than guys like Machado and Harper but his production was stellar 

Heyward - 29.8 bWAR, 25.3 fWAR
Machado - 33.8 bWAR, 30.2 fWAR
Harper - 27.4 bWAR, 30.7 fWAR

We all know what has happened to Heyward since.  Now, I have no idea if either Machado or Harper go the way of Jason Heyward.  Probably not, but they certainly could.  Both have their red flags.  

A couple things to remember is that you're not getting Mike Trout yet their price isn't far off.  And more importantly, when did these two guys become the only two players that can help the Angels over the next few years?  Some are acting as if missing out on them would be missing out on investing in amazon 20 years ago.  

Just to send the point home

Andrelton Simmons over the same period as Harper and Machado.  
34.9 bWAR, 23.4 fWAR

This is not our last chance.  

 

12 hours ago, ukyah said:

it's not a great article. it's an amateur piece written poorly. none of his suggestions add up into a cohesive timeline, then he summarizes his article with a paragraph that should be about another article entirely, milb and a potential strike. tell me, what does the last paragraph have to do with anything that came before it.

if i was his teacher? D+.

 

3 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

It's the very first post. Should be a link that says "You can read it HERE".... click on "here"..

 

10 hours ago, Lou said:

I struggled mightily to even get past the subheading:

"This offseason, while there was no one similar to Ohtani for the taking, but the Halos still refused to go chasing stars."

F. 

Thanks guys, I thought i was just being a dick.

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On 1/16/2019 at 11:52 AM, angelsnationtalk said:

I read a great article that talks about why the Angels never went after Harper or Machado.

You can read it HERE

The end states that we could have traded Calhoun and Upton to clear more room to afford one of them and still afford Trout. Not to mention Pujols' contract expires decently soon.

I also do believe that the owners are too money happy and care more about running their team as a business first instead of a competitive team built to win. Just thought I'd share with everyone. Write down how you feel about this viewpoint. 

Stopped reading at this point.

Justin Upton lf
5 years/$106M (2018-22)

  • 5 years/$106M (2018-22)
    • signed extension with LA Angels 11/2/17, replacing final four seasons of previous contract
    • 18:$16M, 19:$18M, 20:$21M, 21:$23M, 22:$28M
    • full no-trade protection
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4 hours ago, angelsnationtalk said:

It's the very first post. Should be a link that says "You can read it HERE".... click on "here"..

The article that says the Angels "got lucky" when they signed Ohtani? 

I stopped right there. A wisely-designed approach that yielded the desired result isn't getting lucky. 

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