Do you think the current Angel's payroll is satisfactory?

[Stradling]

6 minutes ago, Lou said:

it amazes me that (seemingly) intelligent men think the only expense Arte has is player salaries. 

I agree

[Angelsjunky]

I'll take a different angle on this. Sometimes it isn't best to spend as much as you possibly can - you are more prone to over-spend, or to spend on contracts that don't turn out well. This is what Arte has seen happen, time and time again, over the last decade: GMJr, Wells (trade, but apples), Pujols, Wilson, Hamilton, even Weaver. Only Hunter stands at as being worth the money in that time-frame, unless we include the current Trout extension (which bought out arbitration years, so doesn't quite apply).

In other words, even if you have the money to spend more, it isn't always a good idea and it may actually lead to bad decisions. If you limit your budget, you are more likely to spend it wisely. The answer isn't always to throw more money at the problem.

Also remember that just a couple years ago this franchise was viewed as flailing; in 2015 they had reached a low point with the Dipoto debacle. They hired Eppler for a reason: presumably Arte liked his plan, and we can assume the plan wasn't "spend big now, we'll be in the playoffs in two years."

It may be that the budget is set where its at because it suits the plan of re-building the organization from within. 

Now this doesn't preclude the possibility of a Big Splash - but that Big Splash has to wisely chosen and serve the long-term Eppler plan, which is becoming a perennial contender in the 2020s (this is also why I wouldn't be surprised if the Angels are, indeed, the Mystery Team on Machado....I don't think they are, but they certainly could be).

A year from now we'll have a better sense of where the young talent is at - who is a keeper, who can be traded, and what the teams real needs are to actualize that Eppler plan. Maybe then they go in big on a Rendon or Arenado, or maybe Ward has emerged as a solid 3 WAR third baseman and they use that money to Gerrit Cole or Chris Sale. Either way, nothing the Angels are doing is making me scratch my head. I am finding myself continually nodding my head, liking what I perceive Eppler to be doing on the road to becoming a perennial contender.

 

[floplag]

39 minutes ago, Lou said:

it amazes me that (seemingly) intelligent men think the only expense Arte has is player salaries. 

pretty sure noone ever said that actually

[failos]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

They in their nearly 60 year history have signed 6 major free agents? 7?

In the last 30 years:

Mo Vaughan

Vlad Guerrero

Bartolo Colon

Torrii Hunter

Albert Pujols

CJ Wilson

Josh Hamilton

 

 

Ok you missed like 5 other players, but I don’t feel like listing them out for you

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

They in their nearly 60 year history have signed 6 major free agents? 7?

In the last 30 years:

Mo Vaughan

Vlad Guerrero

Bartolo Colon

Torrii Hunter

Albert Pujols

CJ Wilson

Josh Hamilton

 

 

6 of those were with Moreno.

Wells.....although a horrible idea.....was a large financial commitment acquisition.

Upton would be another.

Matthews at the time was a puzzling but large commitment

Even what we spent on relief pitchers like Spier, Oliver, Downs, etc was competitive.

From 2004 on Angels payroll has landed somewhere between 3rd-10th . I'm very happy with that. Problem is we've spent poorly. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hubs]

16 minutes ago, failos said:

Ok you missed like 5 other players, but I don’t feel like listing them out for you

I missed 5 top FA? Like that year, they’re the top 5 FA on the market and weren’t already an Angel? 

They actually don’t often resign their own free agents: Glaus, Teixiera, Figgins, Guerrero, are some examples.

Simmons, Upton, Ohtani don’t count as they were traded for and in Uptons case resigned, and Ohtani wasn’t big money. 

Matthews and Escobar weren’t top free agents.

[Lou]

46 minutes ago, floplag said:

pretty sure noone ever said that actually

show me all of the posts where you mention all of Arte's expenses other than payroll. 

 

[floplag]

Just now, Lou said:

show me all of the posts where you mention all of Arte's expenses other than payroll. 

 

show me the one i said that was all there was? 

[Lou]

when you make comments like:

"When you are uber wealthy, you manage the balance sheet, not the statement of cash flows."

and:

"Our team payroll topped 100M for the first time in what 2004 i think it was.  in 15 years weve gone up 60M, while the teams value went up by a billion.    Those 2 numbers dont jive."

 

makes me think you'd have a tough time running a business. 

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, floplag said:

show me the one i said that was all there was? 

ok, do it now. 

[floplag]

15 minutes ago, Lou said:

when you make comments like:

"When you are uber wealthy, you manage the balance sheet, not the statement of cash flows."

and:

"Our team payroll topped 100M for the first time in what 2004 i think it was.  in 15 years weve gone up 60M, while the teams value went up by a billion.    Those 2 numbers dont jive."

 

makes me think you'd have a tough time running a business. 

dont recall that first comment being mine, but the second one, yep.   and if im running a business that just made a billion profit while payoll only jumped by about 6% of that  i would guess its doing juuuuust fine thanks

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

dont recall that first comment being mine, but the second one, yep.   and if im running a business that just made a billion profit while payoll only jumped by about 6% of that  i would guess its doing juuuuust fine thanks

I wonder where he put that billion in profit?  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

dont recall that first comment being mine, but the second one, yep.   and if im running a business that just made a billion profit while payoll only jumped by about 6% of that  i would guess its doing juuuuust fine thanks

an increase from 100 to 160 is not 6%

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I wonder where he put that billion in profit?  

in before stupid yacht comment 

[beatlesrule]

Like I have stated in past posts, you need an owner that actually wants to win a championship in order to win one. You think the ownership over in Boston(hell, the whole state of Massachusetts knows how to win with all their sports franchises)just stumbled into those 4 championships in the last 15 years?  What about the Giants winning 3 times in 6 years? Teams like those have ownership that knows the talent to hire and spend the money necessary to win a world series or at least put the best team possible on the field. The Angels are Arte's plaything. His main goal is not to win a world series. That's very clear.  He's making the money he wants and fulfilling his goals as an owner. He is satisfied with his bank account and his investment just fine.

You can't sit there with a straight face and state that Arte has put the best team possible on the field ever since he's had Mike Trout on the team. Moreno has a once in a lifetime player on his team and yet, he hasn't won a single playoff game with said player. The payroll has been the same for what 3 years in a row now?  Arte should have definitely gone over the tax by now. He has MIKE FREAKING TROUT on his team.  His obsession with his budget frustrates me but I have no control over it and am a lowly ant to him. Angel fans have also clearly shown they will support the team no matter what so Arte has no incentive to spend over the tax or even get close. He still gets people to come see his team and that's all that seems to matter to him.

I liken this to other things in life. Some people are just born into royalty. Some are born poor in the ghetto. There are plenty of people out there with talent that would blow away many of the professionals in all the major sports but will never be able to show their talent for various reasons.  Some examples would be a very religious upbringing where money and fame are taught to be the devils work. Maybe their family needs them to work at their farm and can't afford for them to leave to go to college or play sports.  Maybe they come from a broken home and so little Johnny or Susie get bounced around to foster farm after foster farm etc. Trout's parents could have easily forced him into some other line of work or not encouraged him or let him play baseball. A lot of pieces had to fall into place for Trout to be where he is today.

My whole point is that we are very lucky to have players like Trout, Simmons and Ohtani but our ownership is content with the payroll where it is and content with not even making the playoffs let alone winning a title. We as fans just have to hope EVERYTHING goes right for the Angels and they somehow stumble into a title. It certainly is not going to happen on purpose as long as Moreno sticks to his status quo.

[Lou]

my bad, the first comment wasn't yours 

[Stradling]

All you need to know about this discussion is Flop thinks he’s made a billion in profits.   

I’ll ask this again Flop, is your current house worth more than when you bought it?  If so what did you do with the profit?  

[Docwaukee]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

dont recall that first comment being mine, but the second one, yep.   and if im running a business that just made a billion profit while payoll only jumped by about 6% of that  i would guess its doing juuuuust fine thanks

just don't do math dude.  it's not your strong suit.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Like I have stated in past posts, you need an owner that actually wants to win a championship in order to win one. You think the ownership over in Boston(hell, the whole state of Massachusetts knows how to win with all their sports franchises)just stumbled into those 4 championships in the last 15 years?  What about the Giants winning 3 times in 6 years? Teams like those have ownership that knows the talent to hire and spend the money necessary to win a world series or at least put the best team possible on the field. The Angels are Arte's plaything. His main goal is not to win a world series. That's very clear.  He's making the money he wants and fulfilling his goals as an owner. He is satisfied with his bank account and his investment just fine.

You can't sit there with a straight face and state that Arte has put the best team possible on the field ever since he's had Mike Trout on the team. Moreno has a once in a lifetime player on his team and yet, he hasn't won a single playoff game with said player. The payroll has been the same for what 3 years in a row now?  Arte should have definitely gone over the tax by now. He has MIKE FREAKING TROUT on his team.  His obsession with his budget frustrates me but I have no control over it and am a lowly any to him. Angel fans has also clearly shown they will support the team no matter what so Arte has no incentive to spend over the tax or even get close. He still gets people to come see his team and that's all that seems to matter to him.

I liken this to other things in life. Some people are just born into royalty. Some are born poor in the ghetto. There are plenty of people out there with talent that would blow away many of the professionals in all the major sports but will never be able to show their talent for various reasons.  Some examples would be a very religious upbringing where money and fame are taught to be the devils work. Maybe their family needs them to work at their farm and can't afford for them to leave to go to college or play sports.  Maybe they come from a broken home and so little Johnny or Susie get bounced around to foster farm after foster farm etc. Trout's parents could have easily forced him into some other line of work or not encouraged him or let him play baseball. A lot of pieces had to fall into place for Trout to be where he is today.

My whole point is that we are very lucky to have players like Trout, Simmons and Ohtani but our ownership is content with the payroll where it is and content with not even making the playoffs let alone winning a title. We as fans just have to hope EVERYTHING goes right for the Angels and they somehow stumble into a title. It certainly is not going to happen on purpose as long as Moreno sticks to his status quo.

Those teams had a farm system to draw from and some affordable players playing key roles. If this was basketball Trout would have won a playoff series or two or even a championship.  

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I liken this to other things in life. Some people are just born into royalty. Some are born poor in the ghetto. 

in this scenario, Arte was born in the ghetto. he now hangs out with the royals. 

one thing people who have accomplished this don't ever want to do is move back to a house across the street from usc. 

[Lou]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

All you need to know about this discussion is Flop thinks he’s made a billion in profits.   

I’ll ask this again Flop, is your current house worth more than when you bought it?  If so what did you do with the profit?  

I'm buying a Tesla!

and a nice sweater

[Second Base]

My guess is Arte gave Eppler a number he needs to stay around. The payroll has been too consistent for that not to be a thing. But I'm torn on this. On the one hand, profits are at an all time high and owners are investing practically none of it back into the teams. So it's total crap they aren't spending more. On the other hand, spending really doesn't make a difference right now. The Angels aren't catching a Houston. So why spend 200 instead of 160? 

[Docwaukee]

30 minutes ago, Lou said:

I'm buying a Tesla!

and a nice sweater

those are good investments.  

wait.  what is the sweater made of?  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

those are good investments.  

wait.  what is the sweater made of?  

Mike Trout's hair clippings 

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Lou said:

Mike Trout's hair clippings 

is it a size 52?