Joe Biden

[Blarg 30,543]

After working for Rockwell in guidance control for 20 years my father left aerospace briefly to work for a company called General Valve that supplied distribution systems for the oil industry. A lot more complex than your sink valve and the products were used world wide.

Jobs. They are created by other jobs. The trickle down economics of job creation doesn't continue when you axe one out of political pandering. It's not just guys on the site building a house, it's everything that goes into that house. Like a valve or a pipe. Stop building pipelines and you stop the production of all goods and services in the chain. 

But... 

[cals 14,193]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Where Are The Pipelines?

https://www.api.org/oil-and-natural-gas/wells-to-consumer/transporting-oil-natural-gas/pipeline/where-are-the-pipelines#:~:text=More than 190%2C000 miles of,most are buried%2C largely unseen.

More than 190,000 miles of liquid petroleum pipelines traverse the United States. They connect producing areas to refineries and chemical plants while delivering the products American consumers and businesses need. Pipelines are safe, efficient and, because most are buried, largely unseen. They move crude oil from oil fields on land and offshore to refineries where it is turned into fuels and other products, then from the refineries to terminals where fuels are trucked to retail outlets. Pipelines operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Good map.  Thank you to Biden for nixing an unnecessary pipeline.  Clearly we already have plenty.

[tdawg87 32,763]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

The trickle down economics 

Oh my fuck you actually said this.

[Blarg 30,543]

3 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Oh my fuck you actually said this.

Yeah, I went 80's Reagan wondering who would be the first to act like they just got electro shocked. 

[Blarg 30,543]

The Fed going to have to go to court on this. They reneged on a deal that is costing more than just jobs but money invested for future return. The companies involved are either getting their pipeline or all of their investments back with penalties. 

So Biden fucked up playing the 100 day game of looking presidential, putting his policy making into courts and costing taxpayers. 

[JarsOfClay 677]

The fact that a traitor like Trump approved the pipeline is all the evidence I need to know that it was bad for our country.

I trust a man like Biden who actually has the best interest of America instead of himself.

[st1ckboy 6,601]

This should be fun.

[JarsOfClay 677]

Some 3 million miles of oil and gas pipelines already run through our country. But Keystone XL wouldn’t be your average pipeline, and tar sand oil isn’t your average crude.

Beneath the wilds of northern Alberta’s boreal forest is a sludgy, sticky deposit called tar sands. These sands contain bitumen, a gooey type of petroleum that can be converted into fuel. It’s no small feat extracting oil from tar sands, and doing so comes with steep environmental and economic costs. 

Tar sands oil is thicker, more acidic, and more corrosive than lighter conventional crude, and this ups the likelihood that a pipeline carrying it will leak. Indeed, one study found that between 2007 and 2010, pipelines moving tar sands oil in Midwestern states spilled three times more per mile than the U.S. national average for pipelines carrying conventional crude. 

Since it first went into operation in 2010, TC Energy’s original Keystone Pipeline System has leaked more than a dozen times; one incident in North Dakota sent a 60-foot, 21,000-gallon geyser of tar sands oil spewing into the air. Most recently, on October 31, 2019, the Keystone tar sands pipeline was temporarily shut down after a spill in North Dakota of reportedly more than 378,000 gallons.

Complicating matters, leaks can be difficult to detect. And when tar sands oil does spill, it’s more difficult to clean up than conventional crude because it immediately sinks to the bottom of the waterway. People and wildlife coming into contact with tar sands oil are exposed to toxic chemicals, and rivers and wetland environments are at particular risk from a spill. (For evidence, recall the 2010 tar sands oil spill in Kalamazoo, Michigan, a disaster that cost Enbridge more than a billion dollars in cleanup fees and took six years to settle in court.) Keystone XL would cross agriculturally important and environmentally sensitive areas, including hundreds of rivers, streams, aquifers, and water bodies. One is Nebraska’s Ogallala Aquifer, which provides drinking water for millions as well as 30 percent of America’s irrigation water. A spill would be devastating to the farms, ranches, and communities that depend on these crucial ecosystems.

--------------

So 35 jobs for dirty drinking water, eco systems being destroyed, and farmers and ranchers losing their jobs. Sounds like a good trade off.

[mtangelsfan 10,562]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

Some 3 million miles of oil and gas pipelines already run through our country. But Keystone XL wouldn’t be your average pipeline, and tar sand oil isn’t your average crude.

Beneath the wilds of northern Alberta’s boreal forest is a sludgy, sticky deposit called tar sands. These sands contain bitumen, a gooey type of petroleum that can be converted into fuel. It’s no small feat extracting oil from tar sands, and doing so comes with steep environmental and economic costs. 

Tar sands oil is thicker, more acidic, and more corrosive than lighter conventional crude, and this ups the likelihood that a pipeline carrying it will leak. Indeed, one study found that between 2007 and 2010, pipelines moving tar sands oil in Midwestern states spilled three times more per mile than the U.S. national average for pipelines carrying conventional crude. 

Since it first went into operation in 2010, TC Energy’s original Keystone Pipeline System has leaked more than a dozen times; one incident in North Dakota sent a 60-foot, 21,000-gallon geyser of tar sands oil spewing into the air. Most recently, on October 31, 2019, the Keystone tar sands pipeline was temporarily shut down after a spill in North Dakota of reportedly more than 378,000 gallons.

Complicating matters, leaks can be difficult to detect. And when tar sands oil does spill, it’s more difficult to clean up than conventional crude because it immediately sinks to the bottom of the waterway. People and wildlife coming into contact with tar sands oil are exposed to toxic chemicals, and rivers and wetland environments are at particular risk from a spill. (For evidence, recall the 2010 tar sands oil spill in Kalamazoo, Michigan, a disaster that cost Enbridge more than a billion dollars in cleanup fees and took six years to settle in court.) Keystone XL would cross agriculturally important and environmentally sensitive areas, including hundreds of rivers, streams, aquifers, and water bodies. One is Nebraska’s Ogallala Aquifer, which provides drinking water for millions as well as 30 percent of America’s irrigation water. A spill would be devastating to the farms, ranches, and communities that depend on these crucial ecosystems.

--------------

So 35 jobs for dirty drinking water, and farmers and ranchers losing their jobs. Sounds like a good trade off.

35 jobs, lol

[JarsOfClay 677]

You guys lost this argument so bad lol.

What is tar sands oil?

The tar sands industry is just as hard on the cradle of its business. Its mines are a blight on Canada’s boreal, where operations dig up and flatten forests to access the oil below, destroying wildlife habitat and one of the world’s largest carbon sinks. They deplete and pollute freshwater resources, create massive ponds of toxic waste, and threaten the health and livelihood of the First Nations people who live near them. Refining the sticky black gunk produces piles of petroleum coke, a hazardous, coal-like by-product. What’s more, the whole process of getting the oil out and making it usable creates three to four times the carbon pollution of conventional crude extraction and processing. “This isn’t your grandfather’s typical oil,” says Anthony Swift, director of NRDC’s Canada project. “It’s nasty stuff.”

Keystone XL and climate change

A fully realized Keystone XL would lead to more mining of that “nasty stuff” by accelerating the pace at which it’s produced and transported. (Indeed, Keystone XL was viewed as a necessary ingredient in the oil industry’s plans to triple tar sands production by 2030.) 

It would also lead to greater greenhouse gas emissions. In 2014, the EPA stated that tar sands oil emits 17 percent more carbon than other types of crude, but ironically, the State Department revised this number upward three years later, stating that the emissions could be “5 percent to 20 percent higher than previously indicated.” That means burdening the planet with an extra 178.3 million metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions annually, the same impact as 38.5 million passenger vehicles or 45.8 coal-fired power plants. 

Will the pipeline create jobs?
The oil industry has lobbied hard to get KXL built by using false claims, political arm-twisting, and big bucks. When TC Energy said the pipeline would create nearly 119,000 jobs, a State Department report instead concluded the project would require fewer than 2,000 two-year construction jobs and that the number of jobs would hover around 35 after construction.

[JarsOfClay 677]

We're trying to reverse climate change not accelerate it.

We need less pipelines not more.

[Lhalo 12,552]

1 hour ago, Adam said:

Your position is that the keystone pipeline was going to destroy the planet?

I can't stop laughing at that. 

[Kevin 3,316]

I’m planting some trees in the spring. I feel like I’ve done my part.

 

[Lhalo 12,552]

1 minute ago, JarsOfClay said:

We're trying to reverse climate change not accelerate it.

The arrogance of man on full display.

[JarsOfClay 677]

Upon entering office, President Trump—with his pro-polluter cabinet of fossil fuel advocates, billionaires, and bankers—quickly demonstrated that his priorities differed. On his fourth day in office, Trump signed an executive order to allow Keystone XL to move forward. On March 28, 2017, his administration illegally approved a cross-border permit for the pipeline, reversing the Obama administration’s robust National Interest Determination process.

Opposition outside the courts has been swift and strong as well. Farmers, ranchers, tribes, and conservation groups have helped keep the project stalled for the past four years, ensuring it made the long list of President Trump’s failed campaign promises. 

---------

Ya another Trump failure, go f yourself traitor.

[mtangelsfan 10,562]

Your hyperbole basically discredits your position 

[Angelsjunky 10,443]

13 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

The arrogance of man on full display.

The stupidity of man on full display.

[Lhalo 12,552]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

The stupidity of man on full display.

You think that our country can reverse the temperature of the earth? I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Angelsjunky 10,443]

7 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Your hyperbole basically discredits your position 

Climate change = hyperbole?

mt, do you realize how fucked we are as a civilization?

[Angelsjunky 10,443]

Just now, Lhalo said:

You think that our country can reverse the temperature of the earth? I've got a bridge to sell you.

We can limit the ways in which we impact it. 

[mtangelsfan 10,562]

Just now, Angelsjunky said:

Climate change = hyperbole?

mt, do you realize how fucked we are as a civilization?

His hyperbole, “climate destroyers”.

and if you read my post about why I am pissed at Biden you will see it isn’t just about shutting down Keystone 

[Jason 11,054]

19 hours ago, Tank said:

and once again, no mention about asking citizens to stop breaking the law or to take personal responsibility for their behavior.

i know you disagree with this and will have a book for me to read, but i'm not going to do that. i will die on this hill about personal responsibility.

Speaking of taking no responsibility. I'm guessing this kids mom approves of her POS son's behavior. Good on the armed bystander to prevent anyone innocent from getting killed 

Edited January 27 by Jason

[Lhalo 12,552]

14 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We can limit the ways in which we impact it. 

Laughs in Mandarin and Punjabi. 

[Angelsjunky 10,443]

1 minute ago, Lhalo said:

Laughs in Mandarin and Punjabi. 

Yeah, it is a problem. 3 billion Chinese and Indians wanting a piece of the pie. But we can't exactly convince them to limit emissions if we don't.

[Adam 15,639]

Guys, while you pussies are arguing, the greatest event in American history is unfolding.