The Official 2019 Minor League Statline and Prospect Discussion Thread

[Inside Pitch]

35 minutes ago, Second Base said:

And I think just as bad, Dipoto divided the system. Set himself and Servais against Scioscia and ever Moreno.

Eppler had a lot of reconstruction to do.

I remember in the middle of the Angels golden era an article written by Gammons praising the Angels for having created a system that was top to bottom on the same page -- a  legitimate Halo way to play baseball and his saying that a big part of what made the Angels so good was their their minor league players came up and were already good at the fundamentals -- this was something that Stoneman and MS were pivotal in doing.   As you recall, when JD came in he put an end to all that and then made it so that the MLB coaching staff had no connection to the minor league system and how they were being developed -- they were in essence barred from that end of things...   Suddenly you had a team still trying to be aggressive on offense and defense calling players up who constantly failed to make a throw or threw to the wrong base and the base-running became a complete joke.  The fans blamed MS, he was too old, too stupid, too set in his ways.  People stopped asking why guys weren't able to do basic stuff like lay down a bunt.  Every time I watched a guy trying to use his arms to bunt instead of his legs I wondered WTF was going on....    I understand that the game is always evolving but fundamentals never go out of style.... for the Angels they just stopped, period.

We are far enough removed from the JD era that we can now look back and see what if anything proved to be a positive or lasting impact.   Outside of David Fletcher I can't think of any one thing we can look at and say -- this was the start of something good.   I think the crazy part is that for all his talk about analytics and such the Angels never actually had anything more than a few guys working in the area -- and one of them was essentially a spotter position that tracked MLB players..   The one thing that JD talked up is the one area where Eppler has had the greatest impact in, the Angels now have one of the biggest analytics teams in MLB -- and if you recall, Eppler came in talking down that part of his resume.

Again -- Im just glad he left when he did.

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

For me, the saddest part of that chapter in Angels history was how the fan-base absolved him of every ill deed.  The venom almost always seemed aimed towards Moreno, or Scioscia and all the leaks to the press always pushed the JD narrative.  He really did a great job of selling himself and honestly -- it's an ability that will likely serve him well as a GM...    I think he came in and was possibly too ambitious, too full of hubris and it damaged the Angels in ways that weren't fully obvious until years later...   That being said, I genuinely believe Dipoto learned from his mistakes to a degree, he didn't gut the M's minor league scouts like he did in Anaheim and he's seemingly allowed their international guys continue to do their thing -- for all their failings the M's always had a robust international scouting department.   So, while I think he's learned from the past I also believe he's too enamored with being in the spotlight for his own good and I'm betting that will end up biting him in the ass....  again...

Mostly, I'm thankful he left when he did.   It was only going to get worse. 

He did guy the Mariners system. The difference there is that he stuck around long enough in Seattle to reset some of his mistakes. He actually managed to trade Cabo, and he got a legitimate prospect back. And he traded Paxton and got a couple back end starters. He's basically tore down the roster and is now entering a rebuild, which oddly enough, he's decently suited for.

End of the day though, the Mariners won't be competitive again until 2022 at the earliest. But knowing Dipoto and his tendencies, I'm willing to bet in 2022/23 a couple of things are going to happen.

1. His prospects will mature and break into the big leagues, but they won't be nearly as good as he hyped them up to be.

2. He's going to get permission from ownership to sign a couple major free agents, and they're both going to founder in Seattle.

3. With no hope of winning, a bloated payroll land weak farm system, he's going to throw Servais under the bus.

4. Then, Dipoto is going to be fired, but he'll leak to the media some charade about it being ownerships fault and will catch on elsewhere.

5. The end result is that Seattle in 2024 is going to be right where the Angels were back in 2016 when Eppler took over, and Seattle won't be a playoff team again until 2030. The Mariners will have spent a decade following this guys above and it will result in the kindest playoff drought in professional sports.

[T.G.]

IP - I don't think people realize or talk enough about the impact Scioscia and Stoneman had on the whole organization top to bottom, like you mentioned.  It was monumental.  It was significant.  I have a sense with Maddon - the Angels will get back to that.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

He did guy the Mariners system.   The difference there is that he stuck around long enough in Seattle to reset some of his mistakes. He actually managed to trade Cabo, and he got a legitimate prospect back. And he traded Paxton and got a couple back end starters. He's basically tore down the roster and is now entering a rebuild, which oddly enough, he's decently suited for.

We are talking about different things...  I was speaking about the minor league SCOUTS...    Yeah he traded everyone away -- but he was smart enough to leave the people who had done a decent job of assessing/acquiring talent in place -- which is why IMO, he's had the success he did with the Cano trades and some others.   

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I remember in the middle of the Angels golden era an article written by Gammons praising the Angels for having created a system that was top to bottom on the same page -- a  legitimate Halo way to play baseball and his saying that a big part of what made the Angels so good was their their minor league players came up and were already good at the fundamentals -- this was something that Stoneman and MS were pivotal in doing.   As you recall, when JD came in he put an end to all that and then made it so that the MLB coaching staff had no connection to the minor league system and how they were being developed -- they were in essence barred from that end of things...   Suddenly you had a team still trying to be aggressive on offense and defense calling players up who constantly failed to make a throw or threw to the wrong base and the base-running became a complete joke.  The fans blamed MS, he was too old, too stupid, too set in his ways.  People stopped asking why guys weren't able to do basic stuff like lay down a bunt.  Every time I watched a guy trying to use his arms to bunt instead of his legs I wondered WTF was going on....    I understand that the game is always evolving but fundamentals never go out of style.... for the Angels they just stopped, period.

We are far enough removed from the JD era that we can now look back and see what if anything proved to be a positive or lasting impact.   Outside of David Fletcher I can't think of any one thing we can look at and say -- this was the start of something good.   I think the crazy part is that for all his talk about analytics and such the Angels never actually had anything more than a few guys working in the area -- and one of them was essentially a spotter position that tracked MLB players..   The one thing that JD talked up is the one area where Eppler has had the greatest impact in, the Angels now have one of the biggest analytics teams in MLB -- and if you recall, Eppler came in talking down that part of his resume.

Again -- Im just glad he left when he did.

Dipoto talked all about analytics, but more than anything, he was into video analysis. Breaking down swings and release points, etc... But your right, he largely neglected deep statistics.

Eppler came in and talked up his shooting background (which is as advertised, he's a great scout, particularly amongst minor leaguers) but has had the humility to build a large analytics staff to further propel the system in a direction that he himself wasn't as familiar with, and it's paying dividends.

[Second Base]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

We are talking about different things...  I was speaking about the minor league SCOUTS...    Yeah he traded everyone away -- but he was smart enough to leave the people who had done a decent job of assessing/acquiring talent in place -- which is why IMO, he's had the success he did with the Cano trades and some others.   

That and he found a GM even more eager to make headlines than him.

[Inside Pitch]

32 minutes ago, True Grich said:

IP - I don't think people realize or talk enough about the impact Scioscia and Stoneman had on the whole organization top to bottom, like you mentioned.  It was monumental.  It was significant.  I have a sense with Maddon - the Angels will get back to that.

A lot of my access to how the Angels operated ended with Stoneman coming into place -- at least, from the standpoint of 'Leaking info".   But I was very fortunate to have been able to hear about the systems being put into place because of Preston.    Stoneman was far and away the best the Angels ever had at surrounding himself with talented people.   The MS/Stoneman "marriage" was a great example of two guys who shared a similar image of what they needed to become in order to achieve the success they wanted and an even better example of two guys willing to work together.

Yeah -- I think Maddon could be just as good at bringing out the good things Eppler wants as MS was for Stoney.

[Tank]

seems to me like dipoto should be with the mets or marlins.

but i'm thrilled he's still in seattle.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Second Base said:

That and he found a GM even more eager to make headlines than him.

No truer words ....  Another guy who believed himself the smartest guy in the room...    

[T.G.]

I hope the Angels induct Scioscia into the team's HOF.  What he did was transformational. I will always appreciate and admire him for what he did in Anaheim.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, True Grich said:

I hope the Angels induct Scioscia into the team's HOF.  What he did was transformational. I will always appreciate and admire him for what he did in Anaheim.

To a man, everyone on that 2002 teams says MS was responsible for the shift in expectations, the moving away from hoping to win to expecting to win.   Not sure people who came to follow the Angels after 2002 will ever fully grasp how big an impact he had on the team.

[Tank]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

To a man, everyone on that 2002 teams says MS was responsible for the shift in expectations, the moving away from hoping to win to expecting to win.   Not sure people who came to follow the Angels after 2002 will ever fully grasp how big an impact he had on the team.

BUT JOE MADDON! 

3 . . . 2 . . . 1 . . .

[Inside Pitch]

BTW ...

On a personal level -- I want to thank all of you guys who post here and follow the team for having made what was truly the worst season of following the Angels in 20 years at least bearable.   This thread, the conversations here even the ones where we call each other stupid for seeing different things are IMO the best part of AW.com.   This thread has almost always been a place to talk baseball and the Angels minus the usual narratives and toxic BS that derails many of the threads.

Seriously, thanks to all of you.   I fully expect 2020 will end up being a real plus for the system and our conversations here.

And in conclusion the greatest most politically incorrect scouting job ever witnessed in the history of baseball..

 

 

[Lou]

you're welcome

[ettin]

11 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

BTW ...

On a personal level -- I want to thank all of you guys who post here and follow the team for having made what was truly the worst season of following the Angels in 20 years.   This thread, the conversations here even the ones where we call each other stupid for seeing different things are IMO the best part of AW.com.   This thread has almost always been a place to talk baseball and the Angels minus the usual narratives and toxic BS that derails many of the threads.

Seriously, thanks to all of you.   I fully expect 2020 will end up being a real plus for the system and our conversations here.

And in conclusion the greatest most politically incorrect scouting job ever witnessed in the history of baseball..

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Lou said:

you're welcome

I agree.

[Docwaukee]

 

[Second Base]

[Chuck]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

These Kotchman stories are killing me.

Damn, 7 years ago. I thought we had an interview with Kotch.

 

[tdawg87]

You guys are homos.

[Angelsjunky]

[Troll Daddy]

Cocky kid  I like

 

[bloodbrother]

He did, in fact, eat

 

[tdawg87]

[CanadianHalo]

You can watch here. Adell struck out on a full count in his following AB.

1-3 HR and 2 SO’s so far

[Angelsjunky]

Rob Cordemans looks 40.