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2019-20 Free Agent Class


jordan

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3 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

I haven't seen a beat down like that since Ray Rice.Just straight facts,well done IP

To be fair, I believe he's trying two different things ... I think what he wants to argue is that a team that's already better and has a better farm system should in theory remain better than a lesser team with a lesser farm -- but that entire premise is based on assumptions and theory....  Not iron clad facts..   

My reason for responding isn't to even argue that -- but rather that when someone points at something as supporting their opinion, it should and in this case -- the particularly information doesn't.   FV rankings are about translating possibities into real world value based on projected WAR.  And even then if one were to assume that all these guys will pan out exactly as FG projects then their secondary argument that "everyone here has forgotten about guys like D-Mac and Wood" rings hollow.   Either apply the logic universally or not at all.

BTW just to point out how silly it is to put so much weight on one piece of data.. -- their 2017 FV valuations would have already undershot the Angels in 2018 just due to Justin Anderson, Jaime Barria, and David Fletcher all having blown their FV rankings from the previous year out of the water.  

Knowing what the data means and how to use it goes a long ways towards formulating an opinion.

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49 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Chicago had 6, one of which is out the entire season with TJ surgery and when he returns will return to the major league team, where he was when he got injured.  Also it looks as though their best prospect Eloy Jimenez will start the season in the majors.  

i agree that guys that have been in the majors, as long as it wasnt just a cup of coffee thing, shouldnt count, but till they play there they should

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24 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

I haven't seen a beat down like that since Ray Rice.Just straight facts,well done IP

 

18 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Hello, police? I just witnessed a murder.

 

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

To be fair, I believe he's trying two different things ... I think what he wants to argue is that a team that's already better and has a better farm system should in theory remain better than a lesser team with a lesser farm -- but that entire premise is based on assumptions and theory....  Not iron clad facts..   

My reason for responding isn't to even argue that -- but rather that when someone points at something as supporting their opinion, it should and in this case -- the particularly information doesn't.   FV rankings are about translating possibities into real world value based on projected WAR.  And even then if one were to assume that all these guys will pan out exactly as FG projects then their secondary argument that "everyone here has forgotten about guys like D-Mac and Wood" rings hollow.   Either apply the logic universally or not at all.

BTW just to point out how silly it is to put so much weight on one piece of data.. -- their 2017 FV valuations would have already undershot the Angels in 2018 just due to Justin Anderson, Jaime Barria, and David Fletcher all having blown their FV rankings from the previous year out of the water.  

Knowing what the data means and how to use it goes a long ways towards formulating an opinion.

sad lucifer morningstar GIF by Lucifer

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1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

To be fair, I believe he's trying two different things ... I think what he wants to argue is that a team that's already better and has a better farm system should in theory remain better than a lesser team with a lesser farm -- but that entire premise is based on assumptions and theory....  Not iron clad facts..   

My reason for responding isn't to even argue that -- but rather that when someone points at something as supporting their opinion, it should and in this case -- the particularly information doesn't.   FV rankings are about translating possibities into real world value based on projected WAR.  And even then if one were to assume that all these guys will pan out exactly as FG projects then their secondary argument that "everyone here has forgotten about guys like D-Mac and Wood" rings hollow.   Either apply the logic universally or not at all.

BTW just to point out how silly it is to put so much weight on one piece of data.. -- their 2017 FV valuations would have already undershot the Angels in 2018 just due to Justin Anderson, Jaime Barria, and David Fletcher all having blown their FV rankings from the previous year out of the water.  

Knowing what the data means and how to use it goes a long ways towards formulating an opinion.

Correct.  Logic suggests that to be true.
And yes everything in regards to prospects is assumption and theory, which is why i dont hands down by the argument that we are assumed to improve so much.  We could, absolutely, but there is no data to suggest that is a given.
I simply dont see how anyone can be certain about that and further insist that im wrong when were both making assumptions.    I have conceded that the other side could be right, time will tell, but based on our history im not counting on it as much as they obviously are.    

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Why is it so difficult to accept that the Angels don't have the smartest people in their front office? The Astros are better now and chances are, they remain better for at least the next couple of years. Other teams simply do a better job of putting together a major league club and are better at drafting and trading. 

You also need to keep in mind that there are owners that are true baseball fans and want to win a World Series so spend more and try harder to accomplish that. There are owners that treat their team as a business and just want to turn a profit. We as fans just have to hope the owners of the teams we like fall into the first category. 

I don't get the obsession with Arrenado. His splits don't scream 30 million a year to me.

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1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

Why is it so difficult to accept that the Angels don't have the smartest people in their front office? The Astros are better now and chances are, they remain better for at least the next couple of years. Other teams simply do a better job of putting together a major league club and are better at drafting and trading. 

Yep. All it took was 14 years of losing and 3 straight 100-loss seasons for the Astros to become the powerhouse they are today. 

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4 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

So? The Astros won a World Series and are in position to own the division for several years.

What do you mean so? Do you want the Angels to miss the playoffs 14 straight years and stockpile draft picks so they can finally be back on top in 2030? 

The Astros are only a "well-run organization" because they're winning. It took them over a decade of suck to get to where they are. Look at the Angels in 2004 as a comparison.

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29 minutes ago, floplag said:

Correct.  Logic suggests that to be true.
And yes everything in regards to prospects is assumption and theory, which is why i dont hands down by the argument that we are assumed to improve so much.  We could, absolutely, but there is no data to suggest that is a given.
I simply dont see how anyone can be certain about that and further insist that im wrong when were both making assumptions.    I have conceded that the other side could be right, time will tell, but based on our history im not counting on it as much as they obviously are.    

Based on who’s history?  

So you agree that the Dodgers should not have traded Puig because of Lou Brock?  

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6 hours ago, Stradling said:

I’m not one to regret what the Angels do or don’t do, but man we should have pulled the trigger on a trade for Cole, assuming we had comparable prospects.  

He wouldn’t of turned into what he is now if he had been acquired by the Angels it’s the Astros that brought out his raw talent with their analytics and adjustments. We would’ve gotten the same Gerrit Cole that was getting shelled. 

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Just now, floplag said:

This is just argumentative, you know exactly what i mean.

Yes, you are arguing something that is about as meaningful as what I said.  We have an entirely different GM, scouting, player development and major league coaching staff. So what happened 10 years ago means absolutely nothing today and you are pretending like it means something.  

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The Angels should have went for a rebuild in 2016. Moreno is not that smart though. He wants his 3 million fans so he spends just enough to give the illusion of competing.  I know there are plenty of fans that would rather have a decent team every year and just hope they play well enough to make the playoffs and win the World Series.

 

I want to see the absolute best team on the field every year. I don't need to remind you how successful teams like New York, Boston and San Fransisco have been in the last 20 years or so. Hell, the Marlins have only been around since 1993 and have more World Series than the Angels.  We aren't some small market team here. Too many fans seem to forget that.

Our FO just lacks the intelligence it takes to field a winner. Just look at how long they kept their manager as exhibit A. So far, Eppler has not taken the Angels to the playoffs. Yes, this year was decimated with injuries. As a Redskins fan, I know all about that. But since the Angels are not really good at drafting(can't find a 3rd baseman to save their life) and haven't really made any good trades, they lacked the depth to fill in for those injuries.  Of course there are outliers like Trout and Simba but if smarter people were in charge of things, this team would actually be good. 

The Astros are just doing a better job at running a baseball franchise and winning than the Angels as of today. That's just in our division too.  The A's were also better this year although I have my doubts that they can replicate that.

It gets frustrating sure but we have the owner that doesn't want to win at all costs and doesn't have the smartest baseball people employed. We will see how things go under Eppler and it sure is looking up so that's something to look forward to. It should be a crime that a player like Trout has to have his talent wasted though.

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52 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They’ve been rebuilding for 3 plus years, I can’t understand how someone who follows this team as closely as most here don’t see that.  

By rebuild I mean they should have traded away pretty much everyone on the roster at the 2016 deadline. Their farm system would be amazing right now if they did that and they still would have been able to sign all of the guys that they did over the last two years.

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Everyone loves the Astros because they’ve won the division 2 straight years and won a World Series. The AL West however never seems to be dominated for long. 

This is not the AL East that has occasionally gone to one of the three non-Red Sox or NYY teams but mostly alternated between those two powerhouses. 

This division has not gone to the same team for three consecutive years since the Angels did it in 07-08-09 and wasn’t done before that since 87-88-89 by the A’s. 

The division is not lost, before they even play the 1st game. Let’s be a tad more optimistic, ok?

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1 minute ago, beatlesrule said:

Buy rebuild I mean they should have traded away pretty much everyone on the roster at the 2016 deadline. Their farm system would be amazing right now if they did that and they still would have been able to sign all of the guys that they did over the last two years.

They had two players of value at that time that you wouldn’t want part of a rebuild, Simmons and Kole.  There was zero chance they were trading Simmons as he was brought in to be there with Trout into this new era of Angels baseball.  

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3 hours ago, floplag said:

And yes everything in regards to prospects is assumption and theory, which is why i dont hands down by the argument that we are assumed to improve so much.  We could, absolutely, but there is no data to suggest that is a given. 

Sigh.... 

It's an undeniable fact that they have already improved.... Unless going from 30th to 10-12 in a calendar year (while simultaneously not surrendering MLB level assets), isn't considered improvement.   Pretending another year of development and solid drafting won't help them improve is willful ignorance.    

3 hours ago, floplag said:

I simply dont see how anyone can be certain about that and further insist that im wrong when were both making assumptions.    I have conceded that the other side could be right, time will tell, but based on our history im not counting on it as much as they obviously are.    

You say that and yet you went on record as saying that spending another 30 mil would guarantee more than a one game wild card...    Tell me more about how arrogance of others.

As far as history goes -- the line about those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it seems pretty evident here.  Everything about the last three years suggests the current front office has learned from this team's history and made every effort to try not repeat those mistakes.  Unfortunately much of the fan base blinds themselves to it and would rather see them repeat those mistakes because well...  this it time... it will work.
 

Edited by Inside Pitch
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26 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They had two players of value at that time that you wouldn’t want part of a rebuild, Simmons and Kole.  There was zero chance they were trading Simmons as he was brought in to be there with Trout into this new era of Angels baseball.  

Narratives > facts....   Like always.

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30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

They had two players of value at that time that you wouldn’t want part of a rebuild, Simmons and Kole.  There was zero chance they were trading Simmons as he was brought in to be there with Trout into this new era of Angels baseball.  

Wrong. There was a podcast that broke down rebuilding the Angels that year and they could have got a pretty decent haul of prospects for much more than just Calhoun. Again though, it doesn't matter because that would have jeopardized Artes goal of 3 million fans. Arte started all this stupid madness by giving Scioscia a 10-year extension' trading for Wells and then signing Pujols and Hamilton a couple of years later. 

Like I already stated though, this is the owner we have. We are at the mercy of whatever he decides to do or not do. He has made it clear that he will not go over a certain budget and as fans it sucks but we just have to accept it and hope things go better than they should or are projected to. As I've stated many times already, the 2019 season is a flip of a coin. Not what should be happening when you have the best player in baseball on your team and play in the second biggest market but hey, that's the reality. 

The Angels will be going for a second wild-card. Not ideal considering the circumstances but not a horrible outcome either.

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35 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Buy rebuild I mean they should have traded away pretty much everyone on the roster at the 2016 deadline. Their farm system would be amazing right now if they did that and they still would have been able to sign all of the guys that they did over the last two years.

Trout is untradeable. So is pujols, for a different reason.

After that you have simmons. He could bring back some interesting players.

After that, the only people we had to trade were either out with tommy john, or not worth anything.

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Just now, beatlesrule said:

Wrong. There was a podcast that broke down rebuilding the Angels that year and they could have got a pretty decent haul of prospects for much more than just Calhoun. Again though, it doesn't matter because that would have jeopardized Artes goal of 3 million fans. Arte started all this stupid madness by giving Scioscia a 10-year extension and then signing Pujols and Hamilton a couple of years later. 

Like I already stated though, this is the owner we have. We are at the mercy of whatever he decides to do or not do. He has made it clear that he will not go over a certain budget and as fans it sucks but we just have to accept it and hope things go better than they should or are projected to. As I've stated many times already, the 2019 season is a flip of a coin. Not what should be happening when you have the best player in baseball on your team and play in the second biggest market but hey, that's the reality. 

The Angels will be going for a second wild-card. Not ideal considering the circumstances but not a horrible outcome either.

So that podcast somehow said guys like Richards who pitched 4 games that year had value?  Or was it Weaver and his 6 ERA that had value?  Maybe it was Nolasco or Santiago that had value?  Was it the bad version of Houston Street that had value because his ERA was over 6 that year too.  Sorry but anything that tells you, like a podcast, that we had tradeable assets in 2016 is full of shit.  Look for yourself at that team.  Maybe we could have gotten something for Rafael Ortega, remember him?  Me neither.  Carlos Perez?  Giavotella?  Escobar?  Al Albuquerque?  Cam had value that year.  So yea, there were four guys, Trout, Simmons, Kole and Cam.  

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