Jonah Keri: The Angels have tweaked their hot stove approach as they try to build a better supporting cast around Mike Trout

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I just don’t believe Machado is a good investment. Period. 

His career outside of the bandbox of Camden Yards, plus his makeup issues, lead to me to believe I’d rather not invest $300+ million in him. 

He had to be on his best behavior for just 3 months, and he couldn’t do it. Now if he was putting up Mike Trout numbers every year, I might not care, but what if he’s just a .280/.360/.450 guy? Is it worth it? 

To me? No.

 

I think that's the bottom line for me as well.  He's an excellent player that isn't worth the risk.  

[Angel Oracle]

23 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

What was the Angel 3B OPS on the road last year?

They aren’t expecting to be paid $30 million, and don’t say they aren’t playing all out.

As mentioned before, Arenado’s career road OPS is similar to Machado’s career overall OPS.

Arenado>>>>Machado.

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

I wonder how else we can slice up his numbers to pretend that .297/.367/.538 isn't really that good.

 

If Angel Stadium was Camden Yards’ offense friendly, Machado wasn’t a punk, the Halos already had a team to contend with Houston, and had an even deeper farm system, then THAT’s when Machado would be a good addition.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I won't argue that he is better than ARod.  No shame in that.

The comparisons to the others?  Uh, did you forget he pays 3B (and SS)?

Show me Stanton playing third and then I will gladly listen to how Machado isn't as good offesively as Stanton.

Manny's career numbers at 3B:

.279 BA

.328/.471/.799

 

still want to give this guy 10/$300M+ ?
 

[Fish Oil]

One fact that seems to be left out of the Machado discussions is his knees. Both knees have had the same surgery and, according to the below article, there is a high chance of recurrence: 

 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0363546510376230

"The success rate of MPFL repair for preventing recurrent dislocations was 72% (21 of 29 knees)."

[Angelsjunky]

 

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Manny's career numbers at 3B:

.328/.471/.799

 

still want to give this guy 10/$300M+ ?
 

Yes.

[floplag]

7 hours ago, nate said:

The sheer number of Angels fans on this board that want the Angels to spend indiscriminately is astonishing, especially in the wake of the Pujols/CJ/Hamilton disasters.

IMO, none of the FA signings by other teams make any sense for the Angels and I am glad they are being smart about it.

I wasn't going to argue anything today, but, this hit me as i think there is a large misrepresentation of the position going on.   I don't think anyone has asked for them to spend indiscriminately, only that they actually spend where the situation present itself in an effort to win. 
Noone has asked them to go over the luxury tax threshold but asking them to approach it is hardly what i would call indiscriminate when you consider that they are not small market and still have one of the better TV deals.   
Even if they had you cant dwell on missteps of the past as virtually every large money deal feels bad at some point and we have completely different people making those calls today than we did then. 
Ive been as vocal as any, and im not pro Machado.  He would obviously fill a need and upgrade the team, there i no question on that, and i fully believe the team could afford it, but there is too much about him i dont like to feel even reasonable about anything close to a 300M investment.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

I was watching a replay of this round table with 4 GMs on MLB Network today. They were talking about how when you give a guy a really long deal, you have to be 100 percent sure about his makeup, because you’re married to that guy. That guy is going to influence every other player who comes through your clubhouse for all those years. 

Made me think of Machado. And I heard things from people in the Dodger clubhouse that were worse than just not running out a ground ball. There’s a whole vibe and pattern of behavior I just wouldn’t want for 10 years.

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I was watching a replay of this round table with 4 GMs on MLB Network today. They were talking about how when you give a guy a really long deal, you have to be 100 percent sure about his makeup, because you’re married to that guy. That guy is going to influence every other player who comes through your clubhouse for all those years. 

Made me think of Machado. And I heard things from people in the Dodger clubhouse that were worse than just not running out a ground ball. There’s a whole vibe and pattern of behavior I just wouldn’t want for 10 years.

Makes the whole Josh Hamilton contract even more of a head scratcher. Could there have been more of a personality clash in addition to the substance abuse relapse?

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

32 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Makes the whole Josh Hamilton contract even more of a head scratcher. Could there have been more of a personality clash in addition to the substance abuse relapse?

 

That was Arte driven. I’m not sure how much due diligence was done other than talking to Hamilton. 

[Tank]

8 hours ago, Lou said:

Manny's career numbers at 3B:

.279 BA

.328/.471/.799

still want to give this guy 10/$300M+ ?

nope.

the more i hear about his clubhouse issues, the less i want him anywhere near anaheim.

[tomsred]

49 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That was Arte driven. I’m not sure how much due diligence was done other than talking to Hamilton. 

I obviously don't know for sure, but Arte strikes me as the kind of person who thinks he can sit down with someone for a few hours, look him in the eyes, and get straight answers.  That's not really doing effective due diligence.  When you are entrusting the future success of your organization heavily in a person you have to be damn sure all angles are checked out thoroughly.  Surely Eppler knows this, he doesn't strike me as someone who wouldn't run a major player acquisition thoroughly through the complete organizational wringer.  That means interviews with multiple people, and substantive background checks by people who check out this kind of thing for a living.

My opinion is that Eppller is the best we have had since Stoneman, the other two blokes in between were pretty worthless, in retrospect.

[floplag]

10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I was watching a replay of this round table with 4 GMs on MLB Network today. They were talking about how when you give a guy a really long deal, you have to be 100 percent sure about his makeup, because you’re married to that guy. That guy is going to influence every other player who comes through your clubhouse for all those years. 

Made me think of Machado. And I heard things from people in the Dodger clubhouse that were worse than just not running out a ground ball. There’s a whole vibe and pattern of behavior I just wouldn’t want for 10 years.

See that terrifies me perhaps more than any other statement ive read or seen.  In the very short time in Dodger blue he couldnt bother to at least make a token effort to put his best foot forward?  At this point i wouldnt pay him half of what hes rumored to get.  My only position regarding him is that we could afford him, not that i was in favor of doing so... at this point you can put me in the hard pass no category.  

[Angel Oracle]

At most, a person who acts like Machado the punk should get 4 years/$80 million.

If you LOL at that, just remember what Hackilton did to this franchise.

Age 26, going on 16

Jo Adell does NOT need gahbage role models like Machado around him.

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, calscuf said:

He’ll sit down with some interested team and with help from his agent he’ll say all the right things and they’ll overlook the red flags and he’ll get paid.

Let it be Houston  !

[Angelsjunky]

Worse-case scenario: Arte likes Machado, signs him to 10 years. Machado poisons clubhouse. Trout doesn’t like it, so leaves. 

Now ban me until Trout signs an extension.

[Docwaukee]

12 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That was Arte driven. I’m not sure how much due diligence was done other than talking to Hamilton. 

my guess is that Arte and the team were very confident that they'd be able to get out Josh's contract should he relapse based on a conversation they likely had with the league office and Selig in advance of the signing.  Which was probably enough for Arte to feel safe after speaking with Josh.  Josh and his agent using the loophole to get out of it probably sent Arte through the roof.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

Whats crazy about machado is that he looked like a turd, while being in the spotlight to chase his big contract.

Had he simply just not performed, that would be one thing. "He switched leagues. Pitchers have the advantage. Pennant race" etc.

But when he says "yeah, hustlings not my thing" in what is basically a job interview...

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, floplag said:

See that terrifies me perhaps more than any other statement ive read or seen.  In the very short time in Dodger blue he couldnt bother to at least make a token effort to put his best foot forward?  At this point i wouldnt pay him half of what hes rumored to get.  My only position regarding him is that we could afford him, not that i was in favor of doing so... at this point you can put me in the hard pass no category.  

I agree that Machado is a hard pass.  

I still think that 'affordability' is all relative.  Being able to afford a player and his long term contract will always have a collateral effect on what you can do in the future.  Even if Machado was a model citizen, it would still be challenging financially to have both him and Trout on the same timeline making a combined $75m.  Even if Arte were to expand payroll, I just don't like the math.  

One of my main reasons is that I would rather maintain enough flexibility to go after a true ace type starter at some point maybe before the 2021 season or even before 2020.    The class of available SP for the 2022 season is amazing right now.  A lot can happen with extensions between now and then of course.  

[beatlesrule]

Why all the Machado talk and butt hurt? Other than Chucks two little birdies, he hasn't been tied to the Angels at all so there's no need for us to worry.

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Why all the Machado talk and butt hurt? Other than Chucks two little birdies, he hasn't been tied to the Angels at all so there's no need for us to worry.

Even less need for you to worry why others are talking about it then.

[beatlesrule]

I guess people love drama in their lives.

[Dtwncbad]

I maintain three things;

1). Machado is an absolute "fit" for what the Angels need offensively and defensively and would have a massive positive impact on the potency of the lineup and scoring runs.

2). The Angels absolutely can afford Machado.

3). He is kind of a douche.

You can repeat these same three for Harper.

The Angels are the longest of longshots to sign either, but it is worth talking about.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

I agree that Machado is a hard pass.  

I still think that 'affordability' is all relative.  Being able to afford a player and his long term contract will always have a collateral effect on what you can do in the future.  Even if Machado was a model citizen, it would still be challenging financially to have both him and Trout on the same timeline making a combined $75m.  Even if Arte were to expand payroll, I just don't like the math.  

One of my main reasons is that I would rather maintain enough flexibility to go after a true ace type starter at some point maybe before the 2021 season or even before 2020.    The class of available SP for the 2022 season is amazing right now.  A lot can happen with extensions between now and then of course.  

All true, but ill ask again, what about the time between now and then?   

[Inside Pitch]

14 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

I guess people love drama in their lives.

Almost as much as some people like to tell others what to do I guess.   I find it really easy to skip topics I have no interest in.   Try it -- less drama that way.

Good talk.