Mark Gubicza on MLB Network

[Lou]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Some people are in such a rush to be wise-asses they don't bother to check if their argument has any legs.  Wonk has cornered the market on such statements.   God Bless.

[Docwaukee]

39 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Some people are in such a rush to be wise-asses they don't bother to check if their argument has any legs.  Wonk has cornered the market on such statements.   God Bless.

I would have to disagree that Wonk has cornered the market on those types of arguments.  

[Ray McKigney]

48 minutes ago, Lou said:

Looks like me at the Iron Maiden concert at Irvine Meadows in 2006.

[Torridd]

14 hours ago, True Grich said:

Casey Stern (of mlb network radio) has really gone off on the Angels lately.  I can't stand the guy.  I can't stand it when people speak with some authority when in reality - they're just giving predictable opinions without any real clue or insight into what the Angels are actually doing.  I'm tired of radio hosts acting like the Angels don't know what they're doing and losing Trout is a sure thing. So many of them are so sure the Angels aren't going to compete or make the post season and they'll lose Trout.  I'm tired of the narrative.  Sick of it, really.

I suggested to him via twitter that he just have @Jeff Fletcher on his show...

 

I don't agree that we need to trade Trout, but the Angels are showing very slow growth toward the playoff picture, if even that so I can understand Stern to a degree. It seems like we've been treading water for several years. 

[Torridd]

13 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

Can’t we just not do Tulowitzki?  Even with Canning and Suarez the Angels still would have been setting themselves up to not get enough innings.  They need the pitchers.  They don’t need Tulowitzki.  Just let Ward and Cozart have the AB’s. 

I think we need offense more than pitching, but I agree Tulo is not the answer. If they're not going to pick up Machado or Harper, just go with Cozart and let Ward develop. Tulowitzki is not going to send this team to the playoffs.

[Torridd]

12 hours ago, CDiaz27 said:

Another example of idiot people with a public voice I saw while watching Intentional Talk the past two days was Chris Rose torching the Angels for their lack of big moves and lack of motivation to ‘Win Now’ with Trout, all he kept saying was Trout loves it back east and these minor moves the Angels were making, werent going to do a good enough job to convince Trout to stay. Also called the Angels “extremely boring”. Which I think is questionable when you have the Best Defender in the game, the most interesting player in the game and the overall best player in the game. Shows how little people know about what the Angels long term plan is. 

I understand what you're saying, but how long is this long-term plan? If it's frustrating for these consultants, imagine how the fans feel.

[Inside Pitch]

45 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I don't agree that we need to trade Trout, but the Angels are showing very slow growth toward the playoff picture, if even that so I can understand Stern to a degree. It seems like we've been treading water for several years. 

You position holds water so long as someone ignores the growth in the farm and other systems put into place the last few years.  I sometimes think Angels fans were in denial as to how bad things really were.   they won those 98 games in 2014, and people bought so heavily into the Jerry Dipoto bullshit machine they ignored the dry rot that had set in everywhere.   Things were bad, much worse than the record showed and fixing those things while on the fly has been a major miracle...  The truth is we don't get know if it's ready to pay off, so I can totally understand why it can seem like the team is running on place, even more so given the static win totals ... But they are close, and they may have taken the hardest step by parting ways with some of the guys we all pinned our hopes on for so long, like GRich, and Shoe.  I personally believe parting ways with AP will prove to be the teams final step towards legitimacy but whatever.... Things are better, even if it hasn't yet shown up in the W/L record.   

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

I understand what you're saying, but how long is this long-term plan? If it's frustrating for these consultants, imagine how the fans feel.

Most fans can't see the forest for the trees. 

The Astros went 7 years between winning records, 10 years between playoff appearances.  The Cubs went 5 and 7.... The Braves, 5 and 5....   Those are likely the three best recent examples of teams putting a plan into action and seeing it bear fruit...  

The fans wanted to see the team "really try".  They wanted to see them mimic the big boys like the Yankees, and the Red Sox...  They were tired of boring GMs and wanted to see trades...    They got that too.

Trying to appease the fan base wrecked this team.  

[T.G.]

10 hours ago, WeatherWonk said:

I'm sorry, but Casey Stern is an intelligent guy. He's one of the most objective personalities they have. And he is a good radio guy, who communicates well.

There are many people on MLB radio who dont think the Angels are going hard enough for good players. Emmolo and Stanton sure dont. Their take is that we are not that far from competing for a playoff spot but all we do is sign retreads. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay and Houston are way above us and the Yankees are still about 15-20 wins better than us.Never mind Boston. And Cleveland could win their division with 85 wins. So they are in.

It's obvious. We're treading water in 2019. Don't blame the MLB guys for recognizing it, and saying it.

I'm not questioning Stern's intelligence - but I don't think he's all that great a "radio guy" - and the fact that you are trying to defend him sort of re-enforces my opinion of him.

Stern's opinion isn't much different from a casual Angels fan.  It lacks substance, has no analysis and is just predictable.  He hears names like Matt Harvey and Trevor Cahill and automically jumps to "the Angels aren't doing enough to win or to retain Mike Trout."  He says these things without any understanding of the Angels' long term goals.  Again - much like a casual fan.  HIs answer to the Angels being successful is going out and spending on guys like Corbin, etc. - as if that's the only answer to making a team successful.  AGAIN - not much different from the casual fan.

In contrast - when MLB Trade Rumors breaks the news about the signings - they actually provide some numbers, statistics and analysis that show some indication as to why the signings make sense. 

There are some great guys on mlb network radio - with my favorite being Mike Ferrin.  I also like Mike Stanton and CJ NItkowski among others.  In Stern's case - his rant about the Angels was lazy.  It wasn't much different from some of the dumb stuff I read here.

I also take issue with the radio hosts (like Stern) who pretend to know what it will take to keep Mike Trout.  And I especially take issue when they talk like the Angels don't have a plan and that losing Trout is a sure thing.

I'm thankful we are privy to great insights from guys like @Jeff Fletcher - who actually provides real insight into what the Angels are doing and/or plan to do.

 

[Torridd]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Most fans can't see the forest for the trees. 

The Astros went 7 years between winning records, 10 years between playoff appearances.  The Cubs went 5 and 7.... The Braves, 5 and 5....   Those are likely the three best recent examples of teams putting a plan into action and seeing it bear fruit...  

The fans wanted to see the team "really try".  They wanted to see them mimic the big boys like the Yankees, and the Red Sox...  They were tired of boring GMs and wanted to see trades...    They got that too.

Trying to appease the fan base wrecked this team.  

Thanks for responding IP. I hope this plan works, but I'm a bit skeptical. If Eppler is waiting for the minor league fruit to flourish, I'm concerned that there's not enough of the strong harvest.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

I don't agree that we need to trade Trout, but the Angels are showing very slow growth toward the playoff picture, if even that so I can understand Stern to a degree. It seems like we've been treading water for several years. 

Winning is hard. Winning it all is extremely difficult.  I've said that a million times. 

When the Cubs won their WS - many thought they'd be a dynasty.  That hasn't happened.

When the Astros won last year - many thought they'd be a dynasty.  That didn't happen.

The Red Sox is this year's popular choice for the next "dynasty."

Yes, all 3 teams won a ring - but sustaining a championship level team isn't easy.

I believe in Eppler's plan.

Torridd - I also agree with your other post that the team needs more offense.  They hit plenty of homeruns last year - but they didn't get enough guys on base.  Eppler has clearly stated his goal is to improve that.  I think he's working on that.  I think Albert will get less AB's unless he produces better.  He's added high OBP guys in Bour and La Stella.  He's working on it.

[nate]

The Red Sox and Astros also have an embarrassment of young talent on their clubs that they developed.  And that is even after they were able to trade for some great players to round out the roster.

The point is, they built their rosters from within and just filled in when necessary.  It was excellent overall org management.  The Angels unfortunately lost that as soon as Stoneman retired.  I believe that Eppler is on the right track to bring the Angels back.  I think two more years we will really see the young talent start to take over the team.

[WeatherWonk]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

Well funny you should mention Cueto, he was pretty damn bad the year they won it all.  His ERA for the Royals that year was north of 4.70 which is worse than Cahill last year by a full run.  Also Nate is talking about free agency being risky as it relates to pitchers.  Of all the guys you mentioned:

Sale- trade

Porcello- trade

Eovaldi- trade

Verlander- trade

Cole- trade

Lance McCullers- never traded, never a free agent

Lester- trade

Lackey- Free Agent

Chapman- trade

Cueto -trade

Wade Davis- trade

Volquez- free agent

So Nate was trying to talk about the risk of pitching in free agency, you decided to bring up how effective it was for a handful of teams and mentioned 12 pitchers, only TWO of which were free agents.  You could have quoted @nate and agreed with him.   

You COMPLETELY missed the point. Look at the bold text. He contended that pitching has to be developed. And you bring up all the trades and FAs these teams acquired.

Thank you for reinforcing my argument.

Now, if you look a little closer at Cueto's playoff numbers with KC that year, he got rocked in only one start but pitched very good in the other three. One was a WS gem.

[Inside Pitch]

36 minutes ago, Torridd said:

Thanks for responding IP. I hope this plan works, but I'm a bit skeptical. If Eppler is waiting for the minor league fruit to flourish, I'm concerned that there's not enough of the strong harvest.

I actually don't blame people for being skeptical -- a lot of things have gone wrong in recent years.  I think the difference now vs a few years ago is that there are several layers of "talent" in place.  Our recent history has been to try to pinpoint the perfect fit within our budget restraints and hope it works out perfectly -- in large part because we have almost no safety nets in place due to the farm system being so awful.  In some places that situation hasn't changed -- catcher is the big gaping hole of potential suck and it's the one area where they is no real help on the farm and an area that really needs help from outside the organization.  But there is some depth at SP, we have guys that could slot in at RP, there is middle IF depth -- we have some depth at the corners and the OF is possibly the deepest position int he farm system albeit, the one furthest away.   

Edit:  To add one more thing, I don't think Eppler had much choice but to wait on the farm system.  He didnt have the salary space to buy his way out of it and even if he had tried the holes were so numerous and the lack of depth so widespread he would have been putting all his eggs in one basket while simultaneously doing nothing to fix the problems.   

It's been a painful road, but there has been a lot of progress.   I went on record last year in the predictions thread that I didn't think the Angels would make the playoffs -- I saw the potential for it but the lack of depth screamed .500 team to me.  We had too much relying on Richards and company and when they went kaput the season went down the drain with them.  But looking at this team, anything less than 85 wins as it stands now would be a disappointment.  They need to improve the catching situation, but if they are right about the guys in the system this is the year we start seeing signs of hope there, ala Fletcher and Barria last season.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[Jeff Fletcher]

6 hours ago, True Grich said:

 

I also take issue with the radio hosts (like Stern) who pretend to know what it will take to keep Mike Trout.  And I especially take issue when they talk like the Angels don't have a plan and that losing Trout is a sure thing.

I'm thankful we are privy to great insights from guys like @Jeff Fletcher - who actually provides real insight into what the Angels are doing and/or plan to do.

 

This is a huuuuuuge narrative that is getting really tiresome.

It's like Mike Trout just sits at home and looks at Twitter and decides how he feels about the Angels future based on the opinions of casual fans who mostly just go by name recognition and have no idea what it takes to win baseball games.

Yes, Mike Trout wants to win. But he also has an understanding of what it takes to win, and why the Angels haven't won. Do you think he looks at Tyler Skaggs the way casual fans do? I'm sure he can also talk to Billy Eppler any time he wants, 24/7, to get the plan. And I'm sure Eppler tells him exactly what the plan is. I also think there is no team that can guarantee Trout anything in terms of winning, so happiness with his work environment is going to be a big deal. I have trouble imagining him being happy playing for the Yankees or Red Sox.

Also, the Angels are going to offer him a crap-ton of money.

[Lou]

@Chuckster70 

can we pin Fletch's post at the top of every thread? 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 12/20/2018 at 5:47 PM, popo85 said:

Per Jeff's post of Angels having 12-13 mill to spend

Looking at the C's left(Guys who played near 75 plus games)

Age        Name        2018  Stats

32- Matt Wieters    76 games 8hrs 30 rbs .238 avg  .330 obp  

30- Yasmani Grandal  141 games .241 avg 24 hrs 68 rbis .349  obp

30-Devin Mesoraco 85 games .221avg 11 hrs 33rbis .303 obp

32- Johnathan Lucroy 126 games .241 avg 4 hrs 51 rbis .291 obp

32- Martin Maldonado 119 games .225 avg 9 hrs 44rbis .276 obp

34- Stephen Vogt 99 games .229 avg 12 hrs 40 rbis .281 obp

35- Nick Hundley 96 games .241avg 10 hrs 31 rbis .298 obp

 

Looking at the RP's left (Who pitched near 40 plus innings)

Age      Name    2018  stats

30   Zach   Britton  40 ip  3.10 era 1.23 whip

33 David Robertson 69.2 ip   3.23 era 1.03 whip

30 Cody Allen 67 ip 4.70 era  1.35 whip

30 Craig Kimbrel 62.1 ip 2.74 era  0.99 whip

34 Joakim Soria 60.2 ip  3.12 era 1.13 whip

28 Kelvin Herrera 44.1 ip  2.44 era  1.19 whip

35 Tony Sipp 38.2 ip 1.86 era 1.03 whip

32 David Phelps 55 ip 3.40 era 1.38 whip

31 Daniel Hudson 46 ip 4.11 era 1.21 whip

32 Brad Brach 62.2 ip 3.59 era 1.59 whip

34 Shawn Kelley  49 ip 2.94 era 0.89 whip

35 Jim Johnson 63.1 ip 3.84 era  1.35 whip

31 Justin Wilson 54.2 ip 3.46 era 1.42 whip

33 Adam Ottavino 77.2 ip 2.43 era  0.99 whip

33 Bud Norris 57.2 ip 3.59 era  1.24 whip

31 Jake Diekman 53.1 ip 4.73 era  1.5 whip

35 Sergio Romo 67.1 ip 4.14 era 1.26 whip

29 Luis Avilian 45.1 ip 3.77 era 1.36 whip

32 Alex Wilson 61.2 ip 3.36 era  1.05 whip

30 Hunter Strickland 45.1 ip 3.97 era 1.41 whip

33 Tyler Clippard 68.2 ip 3.67 era 1.16 whip

31 Dan Jennings 64.1 ip 3.22 era 1.38 whip

33 Greg Holland 46.1 ip 4.66 era  1.61 whip

35 Jose Torres 68.1 ip 4.22 era 1.15 whip

 

 

Alot of options for RP with that much money to spend they should be able to get a 90 plus game catcher plus 1-2 relievers 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Scratch Soria has a contract in place with Oakland. 

[yvangelfan]

On 12/20/2018 at 2:46 PM, Chuckster70 said:

He mentions the Angels will be going after a C and bullpen help. 

 

 

Why are we going after a catcher now, when we had a great catcher  (I thought one of the best) in Maldonado??

Please, God, somehow bring the Angels' some mighty SP. 

Until then, I'm just keeping one eye open  during this off season.

Edited December 22, 2018 by yvangelfan

[Lou]

1 hour ago, yvangelfan said:

Why are we going after a catcher now, when we had a great catcher  (I thought one of the best) in Maldonado??

Please, God, somehow bring the Angels' some mighty SP. 

Until then, I'm just keeping one eye open  during this off season.

I believe we are targeting a catcher that can hit his weight 

[yvangelfan]

10 minutes ago, Lou said:

I believe we are targeting a catcher that can hit his weight 

But his throw 'em outs at 2nd base were spectacular. And the pitchers loved him, right?

[Lou]

7 minutes ago, yvangelfan said:

But his throw 'em outs at 2nd base were spectacular. And the pitchers loved him, right?

yes, but at some point we're going to fill that black hole in the lineup 

[yvangelfan]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

yes, but at some point we're going to fill that black hole in the lineup 

I say give him another chance ~ he's a free agent. We should've also kept CJ Cron at first base.

But beyond all of that, as usual, we need SP, pleeze.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 12/21/2018 at 7:33 AM, Torridd said:

Thanks for responding IP. I hope this plan works, but I'm a bit skeptical. If Eppler is waiting for the minor league fruit to flourish, I'm concerned that there's not enough of the strong harvest.

I think were all, even the most optimistic, skeptical. And its natural. Pick your reason. Our poor drafting? Hyped guys like wood not working out? Tommy john being like a right of passage?

So im with you. But i think, for now at least, we should trust in the process, and stick to it.

The combo of pujols/hamilton was a boat (yacht) anchor. We doubled down on that with poor drafting. We put a cherry on top with out SP staff looking like the beach after the opening scene of private ryan.

But the payroll is finally within reason, Pujols will be gone soon, and there are a few prospects that look very legit, not hype.

For those underwhelmed by the recent signings, keep in mind, the core that won it in 02, and bridged into the 2000s where we became a powerhouse, had to deal with similar signings. So whereas we might still be mediocre and boring this year and next, the movement looks to be trending in the right direction. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

23 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

This is a huuuuuuge narrative that is getting really tiresome.

It's like Mike Trout just sits at home and looks at Twitter and decides how he feels about the Angels future based on the opinions of casual fans who mostly just go by name recognition and have no idea what it takes to win baseball games.

Yes, Mike Trout wants to win. But he also has an understanding of what it takes to win, and why the Angels haven't won. Do you think he looks at Tyler Skaggs the way casual fans do? I'm sure he can also talk to Billy Eppler any time he wants, 24/7, to get the plan. And I'm sure Eppler tells him exactly what the plan is. I also think there is no team that can guarantee Trout anything in terms of winning, so happiness with his work environment is going to be a big deal. I have trouble imagining him being happy playing for the Yankees or Red Sox.

Also, the Angels are going to offer him a crap-ton of money.

Ill add to it. The one thing trout enjoys out here, as opposed to going back east, is his space. Hes not the type of guy who likes a big posse and attention. Going east he'll be flooded daily with people asking for hookups, to hang out, etc etc. This gets lost in translation with a lot of people.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

I believe we are targeting a catcher that can hit his weight 

What do you mean biscuits are extra?!?!